stevebooth2001 Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 Can anyone help me understand this puzzle over regimental service numbers? I'm researching the history of some brothers called Cain, who served with the Manchester Regiment during the First World War. They were of Irish origin, but lived in Manchester. Two of the brothers were called John and Thomas - and according to family sources they signed up together in the Stalybridge area of Manchester at the start of the war. John had also served during the Boer War - though I'm not sure if that was also Manchester Regt. And the family say he saw service in India, too. Searching the Medal Index Cards, I found the entries below. I was wondering whether two brothers signing up at the same time might have been given adjacent service numbers - but I also seem to have found two Cains with the identical number! I'm very curious about this. My questions are: 1. Am I right to think that two men signing up together in the same regiment would be allocated adjacent service numbers? Or not? 2. What do the actual numbers indicate (if anything) about when they signed up, or which battalion they were with? Do four figures meaning anything, as opposed to the more usual five or six figures? 3. Could two different men REALLY have the same service number within the same regiment (i.e. Manchester Regt), or is this an error on the medal cards? Sadly, the whereabouts of the actual medals is unknown. Any help gratefully received! Many thanks, Steve Thomas Cain - 1st Manch R - Pte Regtl no 3177 Victory Medal - Roll H/1/104 - 12, Page 2646 British Medal - ditto J. Cain - Manch R - Pte Regtl no 3177 15 Star - Roll H/1/46B, Page 16 Theatre of war first served in - 1 Date of entry therein - 9.5.15. James Cain - Manch R - A/WO Cl II Regtl no 3178 Victory Medal - Roll H/1/104 B4, Page 999 British Medal - ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 The two men have in fact an extra Card apiece {Usually all three Medals would be issued from the one Card},probably as it would appear that the details were entered incorrectly Ref their Forenames on their 1914~15 Star Cards & Subsequently when it came time to issue the BWM/Victory Medals new Cards were used. The Star Card for 3177 should read T.[or Thomas] Cain not J.Cain[Possibly the error was continued on the actual Medals,or it could be an error in transciption] However it was possible for different Soldiers within the same regiment to have the same number {especially in the TF where there was more than one Battalion each starting @ Number 1 upwards,in 1908} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 Steve Welcome to the Forum. If the 2 guys joined up together (same time, same place), you would expect them to have service numbers at least very close to each other. The numbers do seem to be appropriate for one of the Regiment's Territorial Force (TF) battalions - it may well be that they joined one of the TF's but were transferred to another Battalion after training and before going overseas. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 A bit more evidence for you Steve - my grandfather went to enlist in 1915 along with his friend, Martin. Grandfather always said that he made Martin go first just in case he changed his mind at the last minute. When I looked them up in regimental records years later I found that they had consecutive numbers - 1102 (Martin) and 1103 (Grandfather). Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 Can anyone help me understand this puzzle over regimental service numbers? I'm researching the history of some brothers called Cain, who served with the Manchester Regiment during the First World War. They were of Irish origin, but lived in Manchester. Two of the brothers were called John and Thomas - and according to family sources they signed up together in the Stalybridge area of Manchester at the start of the war. John had also served during the Boer War - though I'm not sure if that was also Manchester Regt. And the family say he saw service in India, too. Searching the Medal Index Cards, I found the entries below. I was wondering whether two brothers signing up at the same time might have been given adjacent service numbers - but I also seem to have found two Cains with the identical number! I'm very curious about this. My questions are: 1. Am I right to think that two men signing up together in the same regiment would be allocated adjacent service numbers? Or not? 2. What do the actual numbers indicate (if anything) about when they signed up, or which battalion they were with? Do four figures meaning anything, as opposed to the more usual five or six figures? 3. Could two different men REALLY have the same service number within the same regiment (i.e. Manchester Regt), or is this an error on the medal cards? Sadly, the whereabouts of the actual medals is unknown. Any help gratefully received! Many thanks, Steve Thomas Cain - 1st Manch R - Pte Regtl no 3177 Victory Medal - Roll H/1/104 - 12, Page 2646 British Medal - ditto J. Cain - Manch R - Pte Regtl no 3177 15 Star - Roll H/1/46B, Page 16 Theatre of war first served in - 1 Date of entry therein - 9.5.15. James Cain - Manch R - A/WO Cl II Regtl no 3178 Victory Medal - Roll H/1/104 B4, Page 999 British Medal - ditto Hi Steve In the 1914-15 Medal Roll Book 3177 Pte James Cain 14-15 star. 1st Batt Manchester regt. France 9/5/15. In the BWM& VM he is down as 3178 Sgt James Cain 3rd Batt Manchester regt/ 1st Batt. A/WO2. So James is right. as for T. Cain only 2 one was with the 2nd Batt 5752 Pte T Cain France 27/8/14 1914 Star the other 11 Batt 3551 Pte T Cain. as for the other Batt of the Manchester's X2 in the 5th Batt 2407 Pte S Cain 1914-15 Star 1694 Pte W Cain. 1914-15 Star X1 in the 9th Batt 1860 Pte GF Cain. 1914-15 Star X2 in the 11th Batt 3551 Pte T Cain 1914-15 Star 13565 Pte A Cain. 1914-15 Star x2 in the 1st Batt 2711 Pte JJ Cain. 1914-15 Star 3177 Pte J Cain. 1914-15 Star ( this is your man ) X2 in the 2nd Batt 102 Pte J Cain. 1914 Star Mons 5752 Pte T Cain. 1914 Star Mons Hope this helps you as for J Cain his name James not John he was in a Reguler Batt Not TA Batt. Thomas is not in the books for the 1st Batt 1914-15 Star But he BWM & VM are to the 1st Batt so both are Reguler Batt Men cheers Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebooth2001 Posted 9 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2006 Thank you for your help, everyone. I don't think I've quite identifed the two brothers I was looking for, since both of the 'J. Cains' turn out to be James, not John. But your contributions are much appreciated. All the best, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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