alan1830 Posted 15 January , 2006 Share Posted 15 January , 2006 My grandfather George Plackett of the 1/4th Battn Northamtonshire Regt thankfully survived the war.My grandfathers regt no was 48219.The card says he finished the war as a driver in the ASC.He arrived in his theatre of war in Egypt on 04/03/15.Now i'll come to the bit i dont understand-it says he was deleted from the 1915 star roll and i think also the British war medal roll-why? I have just assumed that he wasnt entitled to them.What i do know is that he did have medals but allowed my dad to swap them at school in the 30s because he diddnt want them ! the comments made on the remarks column on the MIC are not easy to read but i think i have read it correctly.Any ideas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 15 January , 2006 Share Posted 15 January , 2006 To my knowledge the Northamptonshire number is a later one allocated circa 1916. I would suspect that the arrival in Egypt is with the ASC not the Northamptons. He would then have served with a Regular battalion of the Northamptonshires. Is your knowldege of him serving in the 1/4th from the Theatre of War he served in or from a definite connection to the 1/4th Battalion? If you post an image of the MIC wecan probably draw a few more conclusions. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 15 January , 2006 Share Posted 15 January , 2006 Hi Alan The 4th Northamptons didnt enter the war (Gallipoli was their first entry) until mid August 1915, so I suspect Steve is right. They were part of the 162 Brigade, 54th Division that hit Gallipoli 10-11 August 1915, but the Northamptons didnt get there until a week later. The 5 figure service number is not a standard 4th Btn one either - 4 digits before 1917 & 6 digits afterwards are the usual Territorial ones. 5 Digits denotes a "Service battalion" enlister to my mind. Starting with the number 4 also suggests quite a late enlister but dont take that as gospel as it may well not be a Northamptons number. Have you tried his medal rolls etc yet, as the Star Roll will confirm which Battalion etc he earned the Star serving in. Could you attach the MIC here so we can read the comments Alan? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 15 January , 2006 Share Posted 15 January , 2006 Not known to be 100% reliable in their transcription but the MIC's online show ASC as the first unit and Northants. second. This would certainly tie in with both Steve's comments above in that he entered a theatre of war with the ASC before a later transfer to the Northants. Posting the MIC would certainly clarify this point and may give other clues. Hope this helps. Steve (yes, another one ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 A gaggle of Steves & 2 from the same county ... spooky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 And you're only 30 minutes up the road, Steve! Steve Fuller and I took part in a discussion about transfers to the Northamptonshires (in fact I started it!) a few months back. These were mainly from the Bedfordshires and to Northamptonshire numbers around 43000. The consensus was that most of these were Bedfordshire men who transferred to the Northamptonshires almost as soon as they reached France and went to reinforcement Northamptonshire Regiment losses (in the case of the 6th) at Pommiers Redoubt on 1-7-16 and then at Trones Wood on 14-7-16. If it is the case that the Northamptonshires numbers follow sequentially (and I have not yet proven that to myself even) then one would imagine the number 48000 to be allocated no earlier than late 1916. Steve also cited the transfer of a few of the 1/5th Bedfordshire Regiment (in the same Brigade as 1/4th Northamptonshires) to this range of Northamptonshire numbers after Gallipoli, when the 54th Division was stationed in Egypt awaiting movement to Sinai and later Palestine. It is possible that a fair few men were evacuated back to England due to wounds and sickness (which was very prevalent) and then moved to units in France rather than ship them back to Egypt. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 A gaggle of Steves & 2 from the same county ... spooky! In fact we're all within 30 minutes of each other, I, for my sins, am in St. Neots............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 Meet you both in 15 minutes in .... Great Gidding's, about the middle I think! Or maybe some other time... Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 Great Giddings it is then..........oops I'm late. Maybe some other time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 Im up for that some time!! Three Steves with a WW1 interest - we'd bore the pants off everyone within earshot!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan1830 Posted 16 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2006 thanks for your help so far,I am trying to sort out how to put the MIC on the forum-i am not very technical ! However i have some of his effects from this era ie 2 photos,one in european uniform and one in desert uniform.He looks like a cavalryman or driver as he is wearing what look like jodphurs,a sam brown and carrying a horse whip,also a chevron at the bottom of his left arm which i can only describe as inverted.He displays the Northants badge on his hat/or whatever they wore in the desert ! i have a certificate of thanks for his service to the Northants and various photos with a large group where you can see others wearing what i think are Australian uniforms.I have a postcard of his troopship and a piece of khaki cloth with a pre printed message on it which he sent to his mother from Egypt.If i get more i will post it,many thanks Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 Someones going to say so it may as well be me! - The "inverted" chevron is actually the right way up heraldically - the rank chevrons are actually the inverted ones. Sad, I know! The Chevron denotes good conduct - 2 years to qualify for that one. The jodphurs would certainly point to an ASC man - a horse "driver" as it were. They usually have a bandolier across the chest left shoulder to right hip. All that you have said points to service in the 1/4th, though you obviously knew that. It was us that were just guessing. It would be nice to see the photos and we'll let you know what we think. Is it possible to scan them and post them, too. To post the MIC you will need to make an image. Select it within the PDF and copy and paste to a paint program. You may need to shrink it down a little to fit it within the 100kb image maximum on the forum. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan1830 Posted 19 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2006 the images are poor but any comments please ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan1830 Posted 19 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2006 photo attached as asked for,hope it helps ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 19 January , 2006 Share Posted 19 January , 2006 Alan Although the quality of the scan makes it difficult to make out, it looks as if there are some RASC medal roll references after the 'deletion from' text. This suggests to me that he was listed on two sets of Medal Rolls, Northants and ASC. The deletion relates to the removal of the second, duplicate, entries from the ASC rolls. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 19 January , 2006 Share Posted 19 January , 2006 The asterisk type thing next to ASC points to the ASC being his first unit. The usual combination for the Victory and BWM Medals (for Other Ranks) was the first unit served overseas with and the highest rank achieved by the end of the War. He was transferred to "Class Z Reserve" on 8th July 1919. That reserve status was generally for "for the duration" men i.e. New Army men, suggesting that he wasn't an original territorial. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 19 January , 2006 Share Posted 19 January , 2006 The pcture: Bandolier, spurs, lanyard are all indicative of a soldier involved in horse handling. The badge looks like the ASC badge but seems a little narrow. He is sporting puttees instead of boots, so probably not an out and out rider as a job. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan1830 Posted 20 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2006 i have examined the original photo and you see can see a Northants cap badge.It was through this that i first got anywhere and was then confirmed by a certificate of service from them(i have this somewhere).My grandfather originated from Long Eaton ,Derbys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 20 January , 2006 Share Posted 20 January , 2006 Read this lot with interest and will throw this in for consideration - could he have been with the Battalion Transport in the Northants? This would account for him being dressed as he is in the photograph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan1830 Posted 20 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2006 Here is another photo which on the original is a lot clearer with the badge-nice outfit this! regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 20 January , 2006 Share Posted 20 January , 2006 That's tropical outfit, and the 6th never left the Western Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 20 January , 2006 Share Posted 20 January , 2006 Sorry, Kate. I mentioned the men from the 6th as an example and as an indication of the rough date that he might have got the 48000 number. I wasn't implying that he had gone to the 6th. I noted that the number shown as being from the Northamptonshire Regiment appeared to be one generally allocated to the New Armies rather than a recognisable TF number. Since I posted that, Alan has assured us of George's service in the 1/4th Northants in the Middle East. I didn't intend to give the impression that he had served in the 6th, and I apologise if I have been giving that impression. Steve. P.S. Having said all that... I have done a bit of collating of the Times casualty lists and there is a DANIEL Plackett (1 of only 5 Placketts in the Northamptonshire Regiment), amongst a list of men reported wounded in the Times of 18-8-1916. A lot of the men on that list I have matched to men known to have served in the 6th, and the casualties appear to have been at Trones Wood. I only post this as it could be a relative of George's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan1830 Posted 20 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2006 I have a khaki souvenir he sent home,written on it is that its from Egypt.Also he always told us that he served in Palestine! I dont know how he ended up in the Northants,our surname isnt common except in the Notts/Derbs area.There may be a family connection but its not known to me........thanks for your help everybody....regard Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 21 January , 2006 Share Posted 21 January , 2006 Sorry, I did not read the the entire thread. Yes, the 4th did serve in Gallipoli and Palestine, so the 'tropical' kit complies with that. Alan, look out for a book entitled 'Tales of a Territorial' by Lt Pendered from Wellingborough. It is an account of his ervice with the 4th Northamptonshires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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