Airship identification

[Gunner Bailey]

This photo is one of three tiny images of this airship that I have in a photo album from an Edwardian Family. More will be added to the Uniforms category later. The album has been in my possession since the late 70's. It is not my family. The album seems to go from about 1900 - 1920.

My guess is that the airship may be French but it is only a guess. Airships are not my specialist category!

Any help would be appreciated.

Gunner Bailey

[Jempie]

Hi!

As far I can judge it's undoubtly a French Astra-Torres type from WWI until post-WWI!

In this range possible :

A.T. 5 until A.T. 7 constructed 1917.

A.T. 16 until A.T. 17 constructed 1918.

A.T. 18 until A.T. 19 contructed 1919.

On each of them, that "A.T. +number" was painted, and only if this could be detected on it , it's possible to tell which one it correctly is!

VBR

Jempie

[Gunner Bailey]

Hi!

As far I can judge it's undoubtly a French Astra-Torres type from WWI until post-WWI!

In this range possible :

A.T. 5 until A.T. 7 constructed 1917.

A.T. 16 until A.T. 17 constructed 1918.

A.T. 18 until A.T. 19 contructed 1919.

On each of them, that "A.T. +number" was painted, and only if this could be detected on it , it's possible to tell which one it correctly is!

VBR

Jempie

Hi Jempie

That's great news. Not many were made were there? My suspicion was correct. Sadly this is the clearest of the three photos. I'll closely check the others though to see if anything else is visible.

Gunner Bailey

[Jempie]

Hi Jempie

That's great news. Not many were made were there? My suspicion was correct. Sadly this is the clearest of the three photos. I'll closely check the others though to see if anything else is visible.

Gunner Bailey

Hi!

I was busy with big works into bathroom! (Not finished yet!)

Wasn't visiting since days the Forum!

The Astra-Torres airship is an invention of the Spanish engeneer Torres-Quévedo which since +/- 1902 developed this type in Spain at Guadalajara.

Only one type there was constructed and than he sold his invention to the French firm ASTRA.

No idea what year excatly but it resulte into the first succesfull Astra-Torres airship 1911.

From this type in France not that many were contructed. The last one was sold to Japan. (1921?)

A few from these French military ones weer used post-WWI as sight-seeing airship by the Compagnie Transaérienne as for more one at Paris. Another one at Rochefort, but that was a VZ-Zodiac (Vedette_Zodiac) , it's possible others served at other locations?

However from this Astra-Torrres type, more were contructed by the British and were known as the "PULHAM-PIGS" In faxct these are the North Sea Class airships.

The British had three Astra-Torres from France.

Own constructed North Sea Class airships , in number 14!

In total the British had in service for Miltary and Naval more than hundred airships! In toal constrcued a 244 since pre-WWI period , but 24 sold! 12 delivered post-WWI.

However if interested go once to www.airshipsonline.com !

My own pre-WWI mainly are as submitted photos to find on : www.earlyaviator.com

(Rod Filan's WWI aviation website)

A good book to have on British airships in general is:

"The British Airship at War 14-18" by Patrick Abbott. (but from 1989!)

There are however a lot of other books, but than not covering all types used by the Britons!

VBR

Jempie

Oh I nearly forgot to tell Yiours is probably from that srial from A.T. 16 on ?

Isn't there some "bult" on bowside of the car? That was the closed command cabin...

In front of it was a gun placed in bownose who was loaded horizontally and was than clinched down over

90 ° to shoot vertically at submarines!

[Gunner Bailey]

Hi Jempie

It gets more interesting! One thing about the photos is that it is impossible to get any idea of the size of the airship from them. To me it looks like a slightly larger observation balloon, maybe holding two people. It obviously was self propelled. Did it carry a bomb load or was it just a small gun platform?

Regarding the date it is difficult to assess. The album is not in date order but in sets. So you get lots of family groups then a page of children then a couple of pages of beach pictures. It looks like the album was put together around 1920. There is one dated photo, and the rest look as thoug they go back to the turn of the century. There are holiday photos from Spain so in theory this could be a Spanish original Astra-Torres, not a later version in France.

Thanks for your information.

Gunner Bailey

[Jempie]

Hi Jempie

It gets more interesting! One thing about the photos is that it is impossible to get any idea of the size of the airship from them. To me it looks like a slightly larger observation balloon, maybe holding two people. It obviously was self propelled. Did it carry a bomb load or was it just a small gun platform?

Regarding the date it is difficult to assess. The album is not in date order but in sets. So you get lots of family groups then a page of children then a couple of pages of beach pictures. It looks like the album was put together around 1920. There is one dated photo, and the rest look as thoug they go back to the turn of the century. There are holiday photos from Spain so in theory this could be a Spanish original Astra-Torres, not a later version in France.

Thanks for your information.

Gunner Bailey

HI!

It's not at all the only the Spanish one, but a FRENCH one!

I have a book (in Spanish ) on all airships they owned until 1939!

(La Aerostacion Militar en Espana)

Pity my scan possibilities are not available !

But on tail you can detect the tricolour vertical painted flag fom France!

It's undoubly one of the serial A.T.10 until A.T.19 !

You ay not mislead you by the size on photo!

The dimensions of this type of airship could be quite big!

The French contructed one which carried 2 such gondola's , gasvolume: 23.000 m³! (812.130 cu.ft)

However gave no satisfaction and they did cut it into two, to recontruct that one as two airships with a volume of 13.950 m³! (494.340 cu.ft.)

That was the "Pilâtre de Rozier"! (1915)

The two than were named after the original "Pilâtre de Rozier" and the new one "Alsace" (1915-16)

However both downed by the Germans!

The "Pilâtre de Rozier" was downed at Voellerdingen in Germany on 24th February 1917 and all crew killed..

But notice 18 crewmembers were on board!

Notice these gondola's were ot equiped with guns, but with machineguns and further a bombload!

They had also a wireless staion equipment!

The AT10-17 were smaller in volume (293.073 cu.ft. an,d the A.T. 18-19 377.817 cu.ft

In total with the first model from 1911 they contructed such a 24 Astra-Torres between 1911 and 1920

(Not included in this number the first "Pilâtre de Rozier"!)

Somewhere 1936 they had the E6 (Escorteur 6) which was a reconstructed Astra-Torres used at Rochefort

for school training purposes! (353.000 cu.ft)

Each gondola had apart from one ("La Flandre" 570.256 cu.ft ,4 250 hp Renault motors, but made only 5 flights and was than deleted) all had 2 motors Renault or Hispano-Suiza following the earlier types 150 up to 200 hp...The last one sold to Japan had 2 x 250 hp motors. (402.254 cu.ft)

Notice the first AT 1911 one had also one motor! (50 hp!)

Further its to be noticed that this type of airship was quite succesfull...apart of the both downed by the Germans, none got destroyed by accidents! (Sofar I remember)

But I don't have a real idea how many crew was used on each type!

But the fact airships were for military used to much endagered by ennemy fire, the French decided only to use them anymore for overseas use as convoy watchers against submarines!

In the early days of WWI, it happend the French military did shoot at their own airships!

VBR

Jempie