greatspywar Posted 15 January , 2006 Share Posted 15 January , 2006 Hello everybody,There are some Germans buried at Tyne Cot in Passendale. Does anyone have some info on the identified German BIEBER? Regiment, date of birth, that kind of things...?Kind regards,Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatspywar Posted 16 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2006 Anyone?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 This is all the VdK has on him. Nachname: Bieber Vorname: Otto Dienstgrad: Landsturmmann Geburtsdatum: Geburtsort: Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 04.10.1917 Todesort: nicht verzeichnet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 Jan/Terry It is possible that the Volksbund has on file more than the limited information published on their website, or in cemetery registers. Try writing to: Herr Manfred Stiel, Abteilungsleiter Graebernachweis und Angehoerigenbetreuung, Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgraeberfuersorge e.V., Werner-Hilpert-Strasse 2, D-34112 Kassel. Give him as much as you know and ask the question. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatspywar Posted 16 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2006 Thanks, I guess I'll have to polish my German then... . If anyone has more info on Bieber, let me know. I tought that he would have been researched dozens of times, for he is the only known German on Tyne Cot. Kind regards, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 I'm sure they could manage if you wrote in English, especially if you said a reply in German would be fine. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 I'm sure that I've read somewhere that Otto Bieber and his comrades were found in the field next to the cemetery. Sorry if you already knew that! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatspywar Posted 17 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2006 Hello, Why weren't they exhumed and reburied in a German Cemetery? Is it something symbolic or practical, or have they just forgotten about him? Kind regards, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 17 January , 2006 Share Posted 17 January , 2006 I have always understood (which means that I can't remember who told me this!) that when the remains were found in the field next door, the gardeners asked for permission to bury the remains at Tyne Cot. This was partly for reasons of symbolic "brotherhood in death" and partly because the remains had been found so close to the cemetery. I heard they were given permission to do this. I hope another Pal will have more details of this story. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatterySergeantMajor Posted 17 January , 2006 Share Posted 17 January , 2006 I have send an e-mail to the VDK a while ago about this subject. They didn't even reply. I think I will reconsider sending gifts as I used to do from time to time. The story of the graves being found outside the cemetery doesn't convince me. If that was the case, they would have been reburied in the new part of Tyne Cot instead of on the Battlefield cemetery in the centre. Also, there must have been much more Germans lying in graves around. Why just these four on TC? Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 20 January , 2006 Share Posted 20 January , 2006 I'm sure they will send a reply, it might just take a long while. I also sent them an email recently, and received a letter from the VDK saying I'll have to wait quite a long time before getting an answer. Right now the VDK is very busy dealing with German war-graves on the former eastern (WW2)-front, to which they've never had any access to before. A huge task for a small organisation. regards Roel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 21 January , 2006 Share Posted 21 January , 2006 I have send an e-mail to the VDK a while ago about this subject. They didn't even reply. I think I will reconsider sending gifts as I used to do from time to time. Erwin Erwin, send more money gifts and they can employ more staff to answer you more swiftly. They are doing a super great job and i just contributed with "money gift" to compensate Erwins future lack of support. Erwin come on think about the sisyphus job they encounter with little budget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 21 January , 2006 Share Posted 21 January , 2006 Hello, Maybe just these four, because they died as pow, and were buried among the original British casualties at Tyne Cot. Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatterySergeantMajor Posted 21 January , 2006 Share Posted 21 January , 2006 Hello, Maybe just these four, because they died as pow, and were buried among the original British casualties at Tyne Cot. Regards, Cnock Cnock Bieber died on the 4th of October. To my knowledge Tyne Cot was still in German hands then, wich suggests that he was buried by his own people. Egbert If you did an extra gift for the VDK this is a good result of a bit of a provocative posting. Maybe I should remember this technique for the fundraising fort the Scottish monument . To be honest: I did send them a gift only a few days after my posting, because I am also convinced that they are doing a good job. I do understand also that they cannot reply immediately to every question. But if they know that it will take some time to reply, it would be very easy to send a brief note that they will deal with the request later? Just putting an autotext in a reply. Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatspywar Posted 22 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2006 Hello everybody, A couple of weeks ago I received a letter from the German Volksbund saying that Otto Bieber was part of Infanterieregiment 79. The letter states: "I.R. 79/11" Has anyone more information on this regiment or has anyone the regimental history? Kind regards, jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 22 February , 2006 Share Posted 22 February , 2006 Jan Here is the relevant battlefield sketch from the History of IR 79, showing the 11 th Coy holding part of the Flandern II Stellung. How do you interpret this? Does it help to explain the Bieber grave? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph J. Whitehead Posted 22 February , 2006 Share Posted 22 February , 2006 According to the regimental history: Musketier Otto Bieber, born on 25 October 1896 in Gr. Werder/Osterode, killed in action 4 October 1917 at Zonnebeke. Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph J. Whitehead Posted 23 February , 2006 Share Posted 23 February , 2006 Here is a quick section of the regimental history that relates to the 11th Company on 4 October. A rather grisly picture comes to mind after reading it. I hope it conveys some of the experiences observed by one officer from the 11th Coy on this day. Ralph Also Leutnant der Reserve Reinsdorff north of the railway between Flandern-I Position and the graveyard is completely unclear about the situation. A few wounded men that came back over the railway embankment, bring him the message of the breakthrough by the guard. Immediately Leutnant Reinsdorff ran from his B-Position at the embankment with Gefreiter Pfannkuch and one orderly back to the company. Both of his companions fell on the way there. The shelter is already full to bursting, 2 groups from the 11/79, 1 MG Section and many stragglers crowded themselves inside together. The bunker was immediately prepared for defense. The company leader observes keenly, recognized movement without being able to determine if it was friend or foe. The fire lying on the cement-block increased from minute to minute. “There something terrible happened” wrote Leutnant Reinsdorff, “a heavy caliber shell hit in the area in front of the shelter and of the men that previously still stood here and with the joy of battle expecting the attack, lay mutilated, terribly torn apart and burning on the ground and their company leader, on honor and conscience, I know it still today; I stood among them, and I was not hit! Each soldier, who had the same experience, will understand, that I now was “Human”; because I was horrified, as I looked in into that ghastliness that the shell had brought. Did I extinguish the fire completely mechanically, or had it gone out unaided, because it did not find any more nourishment? I noticed that the artillery fire was transferred to the rear and I went to see when all at once the Englishmen stood 20 meters in front of the shelter. I grasped my MG that was missing the hand grip and the sledge or underbody was bent and threw it on the shelter. I shouted the alarm and looked for ammunition, however it was buried under the dead and nobody heard my shouts! Leutnant der Reserve Reinsdorff and 4 men fell into captivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatspywar Posted 23 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 23 February , 2006 Hello Ralph, Some great information you've got there!!! Would you be able to send me a copy (maybe a scanned one?) of the relevant pages of the story and of the casualties of that date (or are they alphabetically ordened)? Thanks a lot. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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