Guest andrewpile Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 Can anyone help with the attached photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 You may have tried to load an image that is too big. Maxximum size is 100kb. Welcome to the Forum. Please forgive the problems the Forum is having at the moment. It is well worth sticking with it. Plenty of Lincs men here to help you. (and I'm not far down the road either) Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 Are you looking at the Lincolnshire Yeomanry? If so they were in Egypt and North Africa as part of the Western Frontier Force: http://www.1914-1918.net/CAVALRY/lincsyeo.htm http://www.1914-1918.net/wff.htm They later took part in the Palestine Campaign from the 3rd Battle of Gaza (October 1917) onwards. Steve. EDIT: Looking at your website, you probably know all that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C729LEE Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 AP Keep banging away - I always like to see us Lincs lad's contributions. A hearty welcome to the GWF. LEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bramley Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 The 1/5th were there for about a fortnight too! I second Lee's welcome. Lee I've just read you're 'Big Brother' contribution...lol. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 I would like to help..........but it would appear my eyes are playing tricks on me as I cannot see a photo ??????????????? Could be 4th 5th or Lincs Yeo? We need to see faces and uniforms. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andrewpile Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 Thanks for the welcome, sorry about missing photo, had a bit of trouble with uploading but I guess I'll get the hang of it eventually! The attached (hopefully) photo is entitled The Lincoln Boys Somewhere in Egypt although it doesn't look very Egyptian to me. On the far left as you look at it is my grandfather John Arthur Pile, service no 52381 who enlisted in the Lincolnshire Yeomanry on 23 October 1914. I know from various documents and photos that he was at: Holt, Norfolk in August 1915 (photo), Maresfield Camp in Sussex in December 1916 (postcard), Maresfield Camp in February 1917 (pay book), France from 10 Feb 1917 to 23 May 1918 (pay book) Harrowby Camp, Grantham 7 May 1919 (Cert. of Disembodiment). I am also told that he entered Germany on 1 December 1918 and have a cutting from the Illustrated London News of 14 Dec 1918 showing troops crossing the border near Eupen, according to family story my grandfather is one of the soldiers. Given all that, when would he have been in Egypt? The other thing I am puzzled over is that he finished the war in the Cavalry Machine Gun Corps and I cannot find out when or why he would transfer from the Yeomanry to MGC. Any help would be gratefully received. Regards Andrew Pile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 This might be of interest from the main site: http://www.1914-1918.net/mg_units.htm Machine-Gun Battalions were formed in the Divisions in the early months of 1918, by bringing together the 4 MG Companies into a single command structure. The Battalions took the number of their Division. Their movements and history can be seen on the appropriate Divisional page. Other Battalions formed outside the Divisions, or detached to be placed under the command of higher formations are listed here. "D" MG Battalion Formed from the amalgamation of the East Riding Yeomanry and the Lincolnshire Yeomanry, in Egypt on 7 April 1918. Moved to Western Front by early June 1918. Redesignated 102nd Bn MGC in August 1918, attached as First Army troops. Also from the Linc Yeomanry Page: 7 April 1918 : left the Brigade, dismounted and formed D Battalion, Machine Gun Corps, with the 1/1st Lincolnshire Yeomanry. Moved to France, landing 1 June 1918, and attached to First Army. It doesn't fit with your Pay Book information, though. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBrigg Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 There is an Egypt in Hampshire - http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?cli...e=100000&addr1= I thought there were others in the UK too, but this was the only one that turned up. Just a quick reminder and an invite to join the Lincs members on Feb 3rd in Barton Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andrewpile Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 This might be of interest from the main site: http://www.1914-1918.net/mg_units.htm Also from the Linc Yeomanry Page: It doesn't fit with your Pay Book information, though. Steve. I've rechecked the pay book, it says his Regiment or Corps is MGC©TC and Squadron "B". It was issued 9 February 1917 and was filled on 23 May 1918, all payments were in Francs and "in the field". Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 Andrew, Was the © going to be ( C ) before the forum changed it ? TC can be an abbreviation for the Tank Corps. The Tank Corps was the Heavy Brigade of the MGC until late-1916. Cavalry were certainly organised by squadrons. Not sure about the MGC? Another thing. The 52381 number is either a fairly low early 1916 MGC number or a Yeomanry re-number belonging to the East Riding Yeomanry (as of early 1917) which were the other Yeomanry unit that merged with the 1/1st Lincs. Yeomanry in 1918. Another question! Sorry. Steve. P.S. Dave. I think Andrew's about as far south in Lincs as you can go, Barton is about as far north! Andrew only has to cross the Welland at Deeping and he's in my county. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andrewpile Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 Never thought about there being an Egypt in England - have to check that out. Yes it is a letter C in brackets, ie ( C ). I have two references specifically to Lincs Yeomanry - his Certificate of Disembodiment says he enlisted for the Lincolnshire Yeomanry and a postcard postmarked 6 Dec 1915 was sent to Cpl J. Pile, 2/1 Lincs Yeo, All. B. Sqdn, M.G.C., Maresfield Camp, Uckfield, Sussex. Another postcard dated 8 Nov 1917 was addressed Cpl Pile, 10th Machine Gun Squadron, B. E. 7. (I think it's an E). The attached photo was taken at Holt, Norfolk 7 August 1916, I believe that the uniform is Lincs Yeomanry. By the way any idea what the arm badge above the stripes signifies? Thanks Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 The picture: It may well be cross machine guns denoting machine gun section. The 2/1 Lincolnshire Yeomanry would have been 2nd Line Territorials who did not sign the Imperial Service option and thus stayed in the Uk when the 1/1st went overseas. The link I posted abov tells me it was converted into a Cyclist unit in July 1916. I would say that the initial unit could read 2/1st Lincolnshire Yeomanry att. (attached) B. Squadron Machine Gun Corps. The later one 10th Machine Gun Squadron B.E.F. (rather than B.E.7.). standing for British Expeditionary Force. Perhaps the 10th Cavalry Brigade Magichine Gun Squadron of 1st Indian Cavalry Division, later the 4th Cavalry Division? http://www.1914-1918.net/CAVALRY/1cavdiv_indian.htm It certainly looks like a Yeomanry uniform from the Bandolier and boots (I think they are boots rather than puttees) Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike10764 Posted 13 January , 2006 Share Posted 13 January , 2006 Never thought about there being an Egypt in England - have to check that out. Didn't think it looked like somewhere in Egypt, nor did the little girl look very Egyptian. Maybe it's a picture before they were sent to Egypt, sort of a reminder"they are now somewhere in Egypt", sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andrewpile Posted 13 January , 2006 Share Posted 13 January , 2006 Steve I'm not sure I'm any further on, in fact I think I'm even more confused. Ah well, I'll keep looking! Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated. Spike It's already been suggeste that the photo could have been taken in England prior to departure, then sent as a postcard to family by which time the Lincoln Boys would be "Somewhere in Egypt". The little girl is another mystery. If only I could identify the church. Thanks Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bramley Posted 13 January , 2006 Share Posted 13 January , 2006 Andrew, This is straight 'off the top' but i'm pretty sure that the pay book date for overseas service coincides with the 2nd North Midland Division entering the theatre. This division included the 2/4th and 2/5th Lincolns. I know that some of the Yeomanry joined the 14th and 1/5th later in the war, maybe the same applies?. But i could be way off track. Jim Davies (fellow member) should be able to help. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_davies Posted 14 January , 2006 Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Couple of random thoughts: 1-Service number of 52381, doesn't appear to be part of the Lincs Yeo range after the 1917 renumbering see-http://www.1914-1918.net/TF_renumbering_yeomanry.htm Notice that this is the number that appears on Pile's MIC, is it also on the other documents, or could the "2" be transcription error? 2-The 52381 is the MGC Corps appears among a fairly large group of men who appear to have previous Yeomanry, Lancer or Reserve Cav Regt service. These men start appearing as casualities in March/April 1917. Doesn't seem to been any pattern as to where they were posted. 3-Doesn't seem to have been part of the Lincs Yeo to 4th/5th transfers as these men were renumbered into the respective battalion's rnage. Ditto for the 1/1st when they were transferred to the MGC (their numbers are 14****s)... (Just realized Steve covered most of this!) As his MIC doesn't have any Lincs info on it we can assume that he never served abroad with them, hence no service in Egypt. So he enlists in the 2/1st Lincs 1914 transfering to the 3/1st before July 1916. Still with this unit when it absorbed into the 1st Reserve Cav Regt in 1917. Part of the large scale transfer of men from Yeo to the MGC in early 1917, not having much choice-renumbered as a result of this. Anyway just a few thoughts, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andrewpile Posted 14 January , 2006 Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Jim 1. 52381 is correct, I've checked all the documents I have and the medal rims. The earliest reference I have to this number is a pay book issued 9 Feb 1917, the regiment is described as MGC ( C ) TC. His demob certificate states that he enlisted in the Lincolnshire Yeomanry but has this same number. 3. I understand the MIC now; if he had served abroad with the Yeomanry it would be on the MIC. That also explains why the little info I have on his pre-1917 service doesn't fit in with Lincs Yeomanry operations. But, if he didn't serve in Egypt why is he on the photo? Finding where and when it was taken may help. Is there another forum here where the photo would be better posted? I find it strange that service numbers didn't stay with a man for his entire service, is this still the case? Thanks for your help Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofatfortakeoff Posted 3 March , 2006 Share Posted 3 March , 2006 Err...as Im no expert on the Yeomanry but having just found a shed load of stuff in the Lincoln library I took interest in the photo somewhere in Egypt. I dont want to argue here but a Saxon church by the look of it anda very white looking baby doesnt shout Egypt to me. Perhaps it was the photographers little joke at the time or they got something mixed up? Great photo but at the risk of reputation, career, and standingin scoiety I reckon its taken in Lincs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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