ray.hill@complete.ie Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Hi, My name is Ray Hill and I'm lving in Dublin. I came across this site (which by the way is fantastic) while I was searching for some information on a forgotten great uncle of mine who served in the Great War. I was doing some genealogical research on my paternal great grand parents and came across Patrick Byrne who was a brother of my great grandmother. I never knew he existed. I then found two medals belonging to Patrick that were in an old biscuit tin that contained old photographs etc that my Dad had taken from the house of another uncle when he died. This really sparked an interest. One medal iss the 1914-1915 Star and the second one iss the 1914-1918 victory medal. The Star medal had the following info on it 16744 Pte. P.Byrne E.York:R. The victory medal has the following info on it. 16744 A.CPL. P. Byrne E.York.R. I'm not sure if it actually says A.CPL or A. GPL. on the medal. As far as I know , Patrick was born and lived in Dublin all of his life, so I'm a bit confused as to how he ended up in the East Yorkshire regiment. He apparently was wounded during the war (this is a vague recollection of one of my older aunts). He never married, and was a very quiet man (perhaps as a result of his experiences). He died a bachelor in 1945 aged 68. I would really love to learn anything at all I can about him, his regiment and his movements in the war so I would deeply appreciate any help that might be available. Many thanks Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Welcome to the forum. If you go in to the main site it will give you lots of info on how to research your relative. Find out what you can and come back and post it. Lots of knowledge on the forum to expand on the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarylW Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Hi Ray Welcome to the forum As you can see by my signature five of my great uncles from Dublin were also in the East Yorkshire regiment WW1 Their father Henry Carney had been in the 15th regiment of foot - then I understand the name was changed to 2nd East Yorks, or East Yorks so his sons joined their dad's old regiment. My Carney's were from the Kilmainham area, just across the way from Pheonix Park and the old barracks - I was there recently looking around I've found my grt grandfather Henry Carney living in Islandbridge Barracks on various birth and marriage certs, some of his sons were born there Your great uncle may have served with or known mine in the EYR - and wonderful you still have his medals! I don't have any of mine Did he survive? I'm sure you'll have a lot of help here - I've had AMAZING help with my EYR soldiers Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray.hill@complete.ie Posted 9 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Hi Caryl, Many thanks for the response on this. My uncle was from the City Centre, in and around the Merrion Square area though my maternal family springs from the Kilmainham area in Dublin. I don't know very many details on my great uncle or the EYR or where they served. It looks like you've had great success in finding out all about your great uncles. It would be amazing to know if my uncle knew any of yours. Yes, my uncle did survive, apparently with a half of one of his feet gone.His medals were a lucky find, they were in a box for 60 years. Many thanks Ray Hi Ray Welcome to the forum As you can see by my signature five of my great uncles from Dublin were also in the East Yorkshire regiment WW1 Their father Henry Carney had been in the 15th regiment of foot - then I understand the name was changed to 2nd East Yorks, or East Yorks so his sons joined their dad's old regiment. My Carney's were from the Kilmainham area, just across the way from Pheonix Park and the old barracks - I was there recently looking around I've found my grt grandfather Henry Carney living in Islandbridge Barracks on various birth and marriage certs, some of his sons were born there Your great uncle may have served with or known mine in the EYR - and wonderful you still have his medals! I don't have any of mine Did he survive? I'm sure you'll have a lot of help here - I've had AMAZING help with my EYR soldiers Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Follow the advice of the Squirrel! (Sounds like some bizarre cult doesn't it?!) A couple of quick things though: a) it will be A/Cpl (Acting Corporal) not A/Gpl on the medal his medal card is here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=1 And welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray.hill@complete.ie Posted 9 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Hi Andrew, Many thanks for the link to the archives, it was great to get some information so quickly. I hope you don't mind me asking for some further help?. I downloaded the medal card and I was hoping someone might be able to help me interpret the details on the actual document. I'm trying to decipher and understand what the various entries mean. For instance in the Action taken field it says DISC (which I'm guessing is discharged?).Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks Ray Follow the advice of the Squirrel! (Sounds like some bizarre cult doesn't it?!) A couple of quick things though: a) it will be A/Cpl (Acting Corporal) not A/Gpl on the medal his medal card is here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=1 And welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 If you post the MIC (there is a section dedicated to interpreting them on the forum) someone will undoubtedly help decipher it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray.hill@complete.ie Posted 9 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Cheers Andy, That's brilliant. I think I'm going to get addicted to this place Ray If you post the MIC (there is a section dedicated to interpreting them on the forum) someone will undoubtedly help decipher it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 I think I'm going to get addicted to this place Nah, it's not at all addictive. I can walk away whenever I want. Anytime. Easy. See, nothing to it. I was away for seconds. Count 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Ah, perhaps not that easy after all...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarylW Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Ray You will be addicted to this place, I'm not at all though, it's all lies and slander By the way have you been to this forums main website linked above as the 'Long Long Trail'? There are some war diaries there for East Yorks My Carney's were at 3 Kilmainham place, do you know where yours were? Unfortunately I don't have any group photos of my Carney EYR soldiers, to show you to see if your gt uncle is there, only individual ones, but maybe one of these days I see you are having excellent help Good luck with your research Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray.hill@complete.ie Posted 9 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Hi Caryl, I can't believe all the information I have received in just one day, it's fantastic. My maternal relations were living on Emmet Road in Inchicore, which is about a 5 minute walk from Kilmainham place.Some of them are still living nearby. I did see the war diaires which were very interesting. I'd love to find a photo of him or his company. At the minute I'm trying to find what action he may have seen. I've found out that we was an acting Lance Cpl in C Company of the 8th Battalion. Thanks for the help, I'm sure there is some info we'll share in the future Kind regards Ray Ray You will be addicted to this place, I'm not at all though, it's all lies and slander By the way have you been to this forums main website linked above as the 'Long Long Trail'? There are some war diaries there for East Yorks My Carney's were at 3 Kilmainham place, do you know where yours were? Unfortunately I don't have any group photos of my Carney EYR soldiers, to show you to see if your gt uncle is there, only individual ones, but maybe one of these days I see you are having excellent help Good luck with your research Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarylW Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Roy Oh yes, I remember going to Inchicore. Bought a book about Inchicore while we were there. That area all around Kilmainham is quite an interesting place isn't it with the jail and the hospital - mind you I like the whole of Dublin, we go there often I did try to see if that address was still there in Kilmainham but it did not seem to be, although many of the old cottages are still standing I noticed. There was a campaign going on to save the old ruined church when I was last there - did they manage to save it would you know? They were going to build office space I think You also mentioned Merrion Square, very posh! My grt grandmother in another line was a maid in one of the houses there I'll have to look in the information I've been given to see if any of mine were in the 8th Battalion. I've been given so much I can't take it all in! Sad story about your great uncle losing half of his foot I did look in the Times database to see if I could find your man in the casualty lists but didn't spot him Do you happen to know what year he was injured? Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray.hill@complete.ie Posted 9 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Hi Caryl, I think the church was saved in Inchircore, I think they built around it. Like the rest of Dublin there is a lot of develpoment going on at the minute and property prices are ridiculous. My Dad has a little factory just behind the Guinness brewery In James St and he has been plagued by develpoers trying to get him to sell. All of the cotages that my mothers family lived in Inchicore are now gone. On the Merion Square thing, I wish it was the case that they lived in those houses!, they actually lived in some tenemants in a Georgian House at the rear of Merrion Square. I've done a bit of family research and found P.Byrne's younger sister (my great grandmother) living with her family of 4 in a one room tenemant in the 1911 Census. I think she actually worked as a maid in one of the big houses as well.Maybe she new your great grandmother! Any help on the 8th Battalion would be really appreciated.I honestly have no idea when he was injured.I'm presuming my older aunt was correct when she said he was injured in the foot. Thanks again Ray Roy Oh yes, I remember going to Inchicore. Bought a book about Inchicore while we were there. That area all around Kilmainham is quite an interesting place isn't it with the jail and the hospital - mind you I like the whole of Dublin, we go there often I did try to see if that address was still there in Kilmainham but it did not seem to be, although many of the old cottages are still standing I noticed. There was a campaign going on to save the old ruined church when I was last there - did they manage to save it would you know? They were going to build office space I think You also mentioned Merrion Square, very posh! My grt grandmother in another line was a maid in one of the houses there I'll have to look in the information I've been given to see if any of mine were in the 8th Battalion. I've been given so much I can't take it all in! Sad story about your great uncle losing half of his foot I did look in the Times database to see if I could find your man in the casualty lists but didn't spot him Do you happen to know what year he was injured? Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 I think Patrick may well have gone to France in Sept 1915 (hence the 15 Star). His battalion was part of 21st Division and it is a possibility that he was one of those unfortunate men who were thrown exhausted and hungry into the Battle of Loos. A real baptism of fire. The date of his arrival in France on his medal card will confirm this. Perhaps he went later to make up these losses. The 21st Division lost 30% of its strength in their abortive attack - which was widely regarded as a scandal and cost Field Marshall French his job as commander of the B.E.F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wig Posted 10 January , 2006 Share Posted 10 January , 2006 Welcome to the forum Ray, I have a flat on James Street overlooking the guiness marshalling yards, with open view towards the old Royal Barracks (Now Collins barracks and part of the National Museum). Anytime you fancy a drink in the Tram, the pub below my flat, then post me an email. Of course, you will now that Kilmainham contains the graves of a number of soldiers killed in the Rising. I visit their graves every November. Wig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray.hill@complete.ie Posted 17 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2006 Hi Ian, Many thanks for the detail on this. According to his medal card he qualified for the medal on the 9th Sept 1915. I'll do a little research on the battle of Loos to see if I can find any further details. Thanks again Ray quote name='ianw' date='Jan 9 2006, 11:14 PM' post='376639'] I think Patrick may well have gone to France in Sept 1915 (hence the 15 Star). His battalion was part of 21st Division and it is a possibility that he was one of those unfortunate men who were thrown exhausted and hungry into the Battle of Loos. A real baptism of fire. The date of his arrival in France on his medal card will confirm this. Perhaps he went later to make up these losses. The 21st Division lost 30% of its strength in their abortive attack - which was widely regarded as a scandal and cost Field Marshall French his job as commander of the B.E.F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 17 January , 2006 Share Posted 17 January , 2006 The Battle of Loos took place on the 25th September 1915, so he arrived in time for that. The 21st (and 24th) Divisions had only just got off the boat and were designated as the Reserve Divisions for the attack. Having only just arrived in the area they were held back several miles away from the battlefield in Reserve (a decision largely responsible for Sir John French losing his job - though he'd been having a good go at losing it since Mons). The Battle was as usual expected to be a walkover and as usual wasn't. Having struggled up to the front on roads blocked with traffic, the new troops were exhausted. Instead of the newly arrived, and completely "unblooded" troops just walking across the battlefield and taking over the newly won trenches, they wound up having to cross a battlefield already littered with the dead of the attacking battalions, and through machine gun fire and artillery bombardment. Through no fault of their own these troops were never going to be able to swing the battle and it ended, as many battles before and after, in stalemate. There is a good write-up on the battle on the Long, Long Trail: http://www.1914-1918.net/BATTLES/bat13_loos/bat.htm Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 17 January , 2006 Share Posted 17 January , 2006 Ray, From Wyrall EYR History 1914-1918 Some reason wont load Ill try later Ill send more later Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray.hill@complete.ie Posted 17 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2006 Thanks Charles, I look forward to any info that you can send, Kind regards Ray Ray, From Wyrall EYR History 1914-1918 Some reason wont load Ill try later Ill send more later Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wig Posted 17 January , 2006 Share Posted 17 January , 2006 This is a bit of a long shot but I am told by a reliable colleaque and historian that in penal times when catholics were actively discriminated against, the British did not recruit to Irish Regiments in Ireland (or in Scotland, or at all) and instead enlisted Irish catholic recruits into regiments in Northern England. A tradition that held sway for some time and led to a number of Northern regiments having large quotas of Irish men. A lot of work needs to be done on this and unfortunately I am currently engaged in other projects - but I think it may be worth following up. wig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 17 January , 2006 Share Posted 17 January , 2006 Ray, Give it another go. No not playing, Ill try again later. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray.hill@complete.ie Posted 17 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2006 Thanks Wig, I'll follow this up if I can Ray This is a bit of a long shot but I am told by a reliable colleaque and historian that in penal times when catholics were actively discriminated against, the British did not recruit to Irish Regiments in Ireland (or in Scotland, or at all) and instead enlisted Irish catholic recruits into regiments in Northern England. A tradition that held sway for some time and led to a number of Northern regiments having large quotas of Irish men. A lot of work needs to be done on this and unfortunately I am currently engaged in other projects - but I think it may be worth following up. wig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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