What were Labour Corps 882 AE & No16 IBD

[TonyR]

Hello all, I wonder if anyone can help me fill in the gaps of my grandad's army service? What I know is he served with Royal Irish Fusiliers from 1871 to 1898 when he transferred to 2nd Bat The Essex. He was discharged from them on 26/07/1912 & Ian Hook, the curator of The Essex museum, has given me some background of this period.

The next references are from grandad's army service book, copies below. 28/11/1914 enlisted into unknown unit, which from reading this forum, couldn't have been the Labour Corps mentioned on same page, because Lab Corps hadn't been formed yet. On 11/08/1917 a page of his book is signed by an officer of No16 IBD. Next on 05/08/1919 he re-enlists for another year to 05/08/1920, again unit not named but place is given as 'Nards' which I take to be Newtownards, Ireland, where he refuses innoculation on 15/08/1919 at Camp Hospital, Newtownards, Co. Down.

So questions are: any ideas on what unit he could have joined on 28/11/1914, what & where were No.16 IBD and any ideas on what unit he could have joined on 05/08/1919 with an Irish connection. Any help or advice welcomed. Regards, TonyR.

[TonyR]

Having trouble adding pics of service book, trying again.

[TonyR]

Here's another

[TonyR]

And another

[TonyR]

Last one

[charlesmessenger]

Tony

I can shed a little light. 16 IBD was 16 Infantry Base Depot, which indicates that he was in the Infantry at this time and had not transferred to the Labour Corps, which is likely to have happened because he was medically downgraded. 882 AE Coy is 882 Area Employment Company of the Labour Corps. The Garrison Guard part indicates that this company was involved in guard duties. On 6 April 1918 882 Coy and three other similar coys were formed into No 4 Provisional Guard Bn. Together with Nos 1-4 Prov Gd Bns these were to form a stop line, in case of further German advances, in the area Saulty-Harbacq.

These bns then found themselves joining the refurbished 40th and 59th Divisions and being given regimental titles. Thus 4 Prov Gd Bn became 23 Garrison Gd Bn Lancashire Fusiliers and ended up in 40th Division, with which it fought for the remainder of the war. When it did so, the 'Garrison Guard' part was dropped making the bn 23rd Lancashire Fusiliers. Thus your grandfather may well have found himself finishing the war as he started - an infantryman.

As for which infantry regiment he joined in 1914, I fear only his service papers, if they survive, will tell you.

Charles M

[TonyR]

Hello Charles, thank you very much for your reply. I am new to this & I wonder if you could clarify a few points for me please? Do you any idea where 16 Infantry Base Depot was? Was 882 Area a specific area of the country? And finally, are you saying grandad finished the war/ his service with the Lancashire Fusiliers? Looking through the MIC's, I cannot find my man in the Essex at all, even with his Essex number (5031) & the number on Labour Corps page (409236) comes up as Medal card of Thomas, William Army Service Corps albeit as M/409236. There are however five J Rooneys in Lancs Fus, so it might be a place to start, what do you think?

This is all very confusing for me & as family thought he stayed in RIF all his army life I am getting dizzy! So I am at a complete loss as to what regiment he was in to apply for his service records. Many thanks for your time. Tony

Edited 8 January , 2006 by TonyR

[Max]

What I know is he served with Royal Irish Fusiliers from 1871 to 1898 when he transferred to 2nd Bat The Essex. He was discharged from them on 26/07/1912 & Ian Hook, the curator of The Essex museum, has given me some background of this period.

Hello Tony

Just for clarification, what was the period of his service with the RIF. He could not have joined in 1871 as this was the year of his birth.

Andy

[TonyR]

Hello Andy, oops you're right, I put birth year instead of 27 July 1891. This is on his discharge paper from The Essex on 26 July 1912 with note "on termination of 2nd period of engagement". I have no info on his time with RIF. Regards, TonyR.

[charlesmessenger]

Tony

Infantry Base Depots were responsible for processing infantry reinforcements and No 16 was based at Etaples. Area Employment did not relate to a geographical area and these coys were employed in the rear areas in France and Flanders.

It is perfectly possible that your grandfather did finish the war as a Lancashire Fusilier and so it would be worth pursuing the LF Rooney MICs. You have presumably checked with his documents are held at the National Archives, Kew under WO 363 and WO 364.

Charles M

[TonyR]

Thanks for the clarification Charles. I haven't checked WO 363 and WO 364, don't I need more hard facts to go on first? Tony.

[Stebie9173]

Tony,

Since he was discharged before the War his pre-War Service papers may be in WO97 at the NA.

Depending on whether he served on Reserve for the period 1912 to 1914 he may well have had to completely re-enlist for WW1. As such if he was fully discharged in 1912 he would not have re-used his old number.

For the period you are looking at these will be paper documents stored in (sort of) alphabetical order in boxes that you consult in the Reading Room.

May be worth a look.

Steve.

[TonyR]

Hi Steve, thanks for reply. I guess it's a trip to Kew for me then, to look in all these WO's. Sounds daunting but could be worth it. Regards, Tony.