John Carter Post Office Rifles

[anniec]

In tracing my husbands Father I have made some progress but reached a full stop,From his cap badge in a

family photo I believe he re-enlisted into the 8th Londons(POR) having been a regular with the Seaforths some

time before,this seems to verify as he was working at the Post Office at the outbreak of war,He was wounded

in about July-Sept 1916 and apparently picked up by a German medic and spent time as a POW before being repatriated to the u-k minus one leg.

I have a notebook in which he lists the men of his unit and their fate (Iwill try to attach this) .I have found a medal card which may be his (also attached) .

Can Anyone suggest the next step!!!?.

[MIDMED]

These records are held at the PRO at Kew in London.

The fact this Rifleman was awarded a SWB tells us he received a war pension, the surviving war pension records are held at the PRO, and record a mans service and life after the war in some detail. It will tell you the nature of 4279 Pte Carters wounds.

The SWB lists will record in many cases the date of enlistment & discharge.

The war & victory medal rolls are worth having but in most cases will tell you nothing thats not already on his MIC.

Battalion War diary for Sept 1916

Records of soldiers enlistman & service there must be quite a few surviving John carter's .

Your man was a pre war veteran and may have earlier service records, Boar war ect,ect

Interestingly the men noted on your list as killed were K.I.A on the 15th, in one case on the 19th of Sept 1916 with the 1st battalion at High Wood. A famous and most bloody battle. "Ghastly by day ghostly by night, High Wood the rottenest place on the Somme."

On the 15th Sept 1916 the 1/ 8th London’s attacked at High Wood on the Somme as part of 140 Brigade 47th London Division. The battalion attacked German entrenchments called the Star-Fish within High wood astride the German front line Martinpuich to Flers.

From 15th -19th Sept The 140th Brigade captured its objectives at HighWood and tried to push east. but its casualties were very high. The other battalions within the brigade were pretty well decimated on the first day of the attack on the 15th, being cut down by German Machine guns.

The POR suffered the least casualties of the brigade, the 8th London’s being saved by the first use of the battalion’s new stokes-mortar Battery.

On the 14th the battalion strength was 900, from the 15th to 19th approx casualties were 63 KIA, 185 Wounded, interestingly 50 missing.

It may be a stupid question but what was your Father in Laws full name.

Tom

[anniec]

Thanks Tom for a full and informative response i will reflect on what you say and get back to you shortly, His name was just John Carter he was the son of John Carter and Isabelle Scott and Born in Ringford Kirkcudbright many thanks Annie

[MIDMED]

Hello Annie

Worthy of note, the Rifleman on your list named McGinty (Joseph) noted as killed (7th Oct 1916) was born in Glasgow, his service No was 4519 . The service No may indicate he joined the 2nd battalion in the UK and arrived in France as reinforcements for the 1st battalion in 1916. Your man arrived in France after 1st Jan 1916 .

After bitter fighting in May 1916 the battalion numbered approx 120, drafts of reinforcements arrived from home during the following weeks, approx 450 men had arrived by late June 1916. The battalion was 900 strong by early July.

The POR a fine Regiment.

Tom..

p.s I would be interested to see the photo of Carter in uniform.....

Edited 7 January , 2006 by MIDMED

[anniec]

Thanks again Tom,I do have a poor photo which i will attach.

Regards Annie.

[MIDMED]

Hello annie

Great photo.....thanks ..... he wears the regulation cap and cap badge alright.

any more of the same....? I have some group pictures of the regiment at home in 1915 but sadly he is not amongst them.......

Very best

Tom

[anniec]

Hello Tom.

I have a photo from which the portrait was taken it is full length so maybe gives more clues.John returned to the Post Office on discharge and remained with it until he retired in 1945, He became Supervisor at Weybridge telephone exchange.

My husband can remember visits to Roehampton artificial limbs centre to obtain Johns replacement legs (there was always a spare leg under his bed).

As we live in France my sister-in-law has agreed to go to the Archive in Kew to follow up on your sggestions (she lives in West London) we will of course post any new findings.

Regards Annie.

[anniec]

Hollo Tom

For greater clarity I nave transcribed the document in my first post in full

AnnieTranscrption_of_John_Carter.docTranscrption_of_John_Carter.doc

[MIDMED]

Hollo Tom

For greater clarity I nave transcribed the document in my first post in full

AnnieTranscrption_of_John_Carter.docTranscrption_of_John_Carter.doc

Hello Annie

How interesting, Roahamton, ect, ect. Have attached an image of a ward at Roehampton. The Hospital specialised in aesthetic limbs and during the war pioneered new techniques in infection control, infection was the big killer. Was carter a Chelsea fan, many amputees from the Hospital during and after the war enjoyed the company of the nurse's during home games at Stamford Bridge. I follow the Blues and always detour through Roehampton cemetery to home games, so many service graves from the hospital.

An older friend of mine had an elderly gentleman family member (Father in law) who had lost his arm in the Gt War and new Roehampton well. When my pal was dating his future wife in the 50's the love birds would sneak back to her home in Battersea late at night via the rear of the house, her father an old one armed veteran never caught them at it but the said suitor would be viciously assaulted in "mid sneak" by the old boys false arm hanging inside the back door.......

On a more serious note the above was also wounded & captured by the Germans on the western front, his life saved by a German army surgeon who took his arm off while a P.O.W. Was this the case with Cpl Carter...? The offending false arm was made by the German Army for him while in captivity; he kept it all his life.

Some 2.289,860 servicemen had returned to England as casualties during the war, some years after the wars end in 1930 a little over 100.000 service pensions were being paid to Great War amputees and those with associated limb disabilities.

very best

Tom.

p.s The picture of John Carter would date from after mid 1915 he has a war made tunic on but wears his original home service black Rifles cap and belt . I would say becouse of his stiff cap he;s at home sometime before 1916.

[anniec]

hello Tom.

Again a very interesting reply. Re wounds, John was lifted off the battlefield byGerman medics and had nothing but praise for his treatment once in hospital,yes the German surgeon amputated his leg and it seems that once away from the battle zone the Germans behaved in a considerate manner,Incidentally, what would have been the route to repatriation from the Somme?.

I have tried to sort through Johns list using the POR web site and get the following very provisional results

Total in Section 28 men

KIA 13

Wounded 8

KIA 21st June 1916 2

" 15th Sept " 4

" 17th " " 1

" 7th Oct " 5

These dates seem to tie in to your first post i.e the action at High Wood.

The photo was taken in Scotland in late 1915 ,maybe on leave before posting to France.

Regards Annie.