RND

[nicburch]

Hello all,

I am looking for confirmation as to the composition of the 190th brigade on Welsh Ridge, Dec. '17.

Were the 5th KSLI in or the 10th Royal Dublin Fusiliers. I know the latter were involved earlier that year, was there a changeover, if so when.

Nick

[James Brown]

Nick

The 10th Royal Dublin Fusiliers joined August 1916 and left the Brigade in June 1917.

The 1/4th KSLI was in the 190th Brigade.

I don't think the 5th were in the 190th Brigade. The 5th Battalion was a Service Battalion and served with the 42nd Brigade throughout the war until it was disbanded in February 1918.

On Chris's main site it shows here.

http://www.1914-1918.net/63div.htm

James

[michaeldr]

Quote: Were the 5th KSLI in or the 10th Royal Dublin Fusiliers. I know the latter were involved earlier that year, was there a changeover, if so when.

Nick,

“10th Dublins left the R.N.D. on the 22/6/1917 as reinforcements for the 16th (Irish) Division….

Shropshire Light Infantry joined the R.N.D. on the 20th July 1917….”

[from Len Sellers’ magazine R.N.D., issue No.1, June 1997, page 8]

Also from the same R.N.D. magazine, issue No.4, March 1998, page 246

in an article by Capt. Christopher Page

‘The time between Gavrelle and Passchendaele was spent in reorganising, followed by continual spells in the front line in the Gavrelle area: the HAC left to join the Guards Division, and the Dublin Fusiliers had been removed to reinforce the 16th (Irish) Division after Messines. These two battalions were eventually relieved by the Artists Rifles and the 1/4th Kings Shropshire Light Infantry, respectively,…..’

Regards

Michael D.R.

[nicburch]

James and Michael, thanks for your replies,

It is interesting and somewhat confusing to note that Jerrold in his history of the RND mentions that in July 1917 'the reorganized brigade(190th) was to be completed by the 5th KSLI, but this battalion did not arrive until July 20th, and arrangements had to be made to give the men leave.They had had none since mobilization'

Mr Sellars in his book 'The Hood Battalion' states the composition of the 190th Brigade at Welsh Ridge in Dec.1917 including the 5th KSLI.

Both of you and the page on this site dedicated to the 63rd Division agree to the 1/4th KSLI. My question, Who is right? or am i missing something.

Nick

[michaeldr]

Nick,

Your primary topic is the 190th Brigade at Welsh Ridge

This is covered in detail by an article in Len Sellers’ magazine ‘R.N.D.’ Issue no.21, June 2002 pages 2073-2089

As far as I can make out this is based upon a file at Kew ref: ADM137/3932 [this file includes maps]

The 190th Brigade are given as disposed as foll

Right Batt.- 7th Royal Fusiliers

Left Batt.- 1/4th Shropshire Light Infantry

Brigade Resv. Batt.- 1/1 Artists Rifles

Div. Resv Batt.- 4 Bedfordshire Regt.

The casualties for the 1/4th Shropshires are given as

Killed officers 3, other ranks 28

Wounded officers 6, other ranks 101

Missing officers 0, other ranks 20

If you have difficulty in gaining access to the Kew file mentioned above

then please feel free to PM me and I will let you have a copy of the ‘R.N.D.’ article

Best regards

Michael D. R.

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Nick

James & Michael are 100% correct, the 1st/4th K.S.L.I. joined the 190th Brigade.

Annette