liverpool annie Posted 4 January , 2006 Share Posted 4 January , 2006 I'm sorry if I am going over old ground but this copyright stuff is driving me crazy!! I thought I knew but now I don't know!! If I download a medal card from TNA for three pounds fifty pence - am I NOT allowed to post it on this forum or any other forum because of copyright ? PLEASE - tell me the rule again ! Thanking you in advance Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigtoddy Posted 4 January , 2006 Share Posted 4 January , 2006 i would not worry to much about the copyright if you look in this forum there is plenty of mic so just post dont worry bigtoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Robertson Posted 4 January , 2006 Share Posted 4 January , 2006 Annie, If I had paid £3.50 (and I have on several occasions) for something that consists of only a few lines I would be very displeased not to be able to post my download wherever I fancied. A while back, many members who had downloaded MIC's were offering them to other members who shared a common interest in the same surname etc. I wouldn't be overly concerned if I was you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 8 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2006 Apart from posting the medal cards on the forum - I am doing an Honour Roll ( just a small one - compared to you guys!!) but I was going to add the medal cards for my soldiers - then I was told I couldn't because of copyright! That's why I'm trying to find out for sure! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 8 January , 2006 Share Posted 8 January , 2006 Apart from posting the medal cards on the forum - I am doing an Honour Roll ( just a small one - compared to you guys!!) but I was going to add the medal cards for my soldiers - then I was told I couldn't because of copyright! That's why I'm trying to find out for sure! Annie A quick query to NA should put your mind at rest. The information in any event is not copyrighted. It is in the public domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 8 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2006 I took your advice truthergw ! and sent them an email! Let's see what comes back! Thanks again for your help! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 8 January , 2006 Share Posted 8 January , 2006 The information in any event is not copyrighted. It is in the public domain. I am sure it is actually Crown Copyright. There are rules and guidelines for using CC material which can be obtained from TNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 8 January , 2006 Share Posted 8 January , 2006 This is the short version: National Archives Copyright Which will lead you on to the longer version if you can stand the pace! Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 8 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2006 Thanks Sue - that's where I went to get the email address! The use of copies of records downloaded from DocumentsOnline is subject to the following conditions. Digital copies of documents on DocumentsOnline may be used only for: Private study or research for a non-commercial purpose Education: copies may be used, and further copies of those copies may be made, for education purposes in the course of instruction or examination, or of preparation for instruction or examination by a person giving or receiving the instruction or preparing or taking the examination Chris - this was what I read !! - I thought that because it was for non - commercial use - I was OK - but somebody told me "no" and now I'm confused - everybody you talk to has a different "take"!! Anyways I've asked them - so I'll wait with bated breath for the reply!! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 That sorts out one plan I had! Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 9 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Me too Kate! I've already been paying 3.50 a pop ( I have 52 men and 18 officers !! ) - now they want 47.00 too!! ...... Maybe later - not right now!! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 I've already been paying 3.50 a pop ( I have 52 men and 18 officers !! ) - now they want 47.00 too!! ...... Can I moan about the 3.50 a go? Please... Ok I will - it's a lot of money if you've got a lot to get. How come the Canadian site where I happily downloaded attestation papers and a very useful war diary was free? Moan moan grumble grumble Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 9 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Australians too! I'm disappointed! - I've been buying them - so many every payday - I have about 25 now ! - I'll just have to write them out - they can't get me for that!! but it would have been nice to post them! That's what I get for having "high falluting " ideas!! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 I think this moan has come up quite a lot of times before. My view is: 1. The number of Canadian [and Australian] men who attested, were wounded, killed, survived etc. during the war was very small compared to British men. Therefore the number of service records and war diaries is tiny, relatively speaking. 2. Other countries simply don't have the range and depth of archives that we are lucky enough to have in this country, and they can afford to be generous in making available what is probably their only large, single archive of records. The Great War is a major part of their history. That is not so in Great Britain, it is only a tiny part of a very long history, though we may be too blinkered to realise it. If WW1 records are available free of charge, so should the other 99% of our archives. 3. Why should the taxpayer be footing the bill for people's hobbies? I do not want to pay for my neighbour to trace the exploits of her great uncle Jasper, or fund those who can pay to buy medals etc., but feel they should get any research free of charge or foot the bill for those who want to trace the history of their house. I am, however, more than happy to pay what I can afford for my own pastime. 4. Nearly forgot. The Germans didn't get as far as Canada and Australia in the autumn of 1940. And I'm not sure I understand what an internet image of a medal index card can add to a man's story? It's only an index card with his name, rank, number and quite a lot figures, totally meaningless to most of those reading. It says nothing without interpretation and explanation, so it's probably better to stick with the explanation and give the card a miss. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Sue, but you can do all you say free of charge if you can physically get to the relevant record offices. The majority of the on-line stuff that is chargeable is all family history related. Maybe I’m being cynical but family history research is obviously a big money spinner for the archives. If they charge for WW1 Medal cards how come there’s no charge for looking up on-line the catalogue of holdings from my local record office and seeing very detailed extracts from all their holdings and in some cases (admittedly a small number) a scan of the original? Last year I spent a great deal of time working on an undergraduate project on 16th century witchcraft trials in Essex – not family history related at all. Where the original document still exists (& can be found using their search facility), Essex Record Office very kindly has an on-line extract of the document that can be viewed free of charge. The on-line extract alone was sufficient enough to glean the information I was looking for. I get your point about why have the MIC displayed on a website and certainly they’d require some form of key or link back to the National Archive website for a detailed explanation but they are all part of the visual, not to mention official evidence, that these people did exist. Same way that if I ever get round to building a website on the results of my witchcraft investigations I would love to be able to display scans of the official trials and contemporary pamphlets but doubt I’ll be able to do it because of copyright/reproduction issues. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 9 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2006 I guess I'm just passionate about my soldiers!! I want people to be able to see how brave they were! - and I believe it's up to me to give as much information as I can about them - even if only ONE person looks at my Honour Roll and says "WOW!! - look what he did!!" - I will have achieved my goal ......... maybe I'm OCD who knows ............ but for me to make as much information available as I can - is (in my opinion) the whole point of honouring some very wonderful men - who along with my Granddad - gave the rest of us a chance to live the way we do!! So to cut a long story short - I'll just write them out!! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Kate The records that are online are there because of demand – they are the records that are considered to be most useful to the greatest number of people. As they are charging, I can see that it can be viewed as a money grabber, but I feel there would be quite a lot of unrest if, instead of family history resources, they were putting on things like Home Office memoranda or Manorial rolls which were only of interest to a very small minority. I would really like to have access to all the committee minutes of the military nursing service from 1902 – me and one other probably! The funding of County Record Offices is a local affair, and comes out of their own budget. The people of Essex are paying for your free access to the records there, in the same way that I’m contributing to those that are available in Sussex, and I imagine that all that has to be weighed up carefully against things such as roads, police etc. Going back just five years or so very little was available online, and we were used to travelling to record offices all over the place to find what we needed. Now, unless it’s available online, there’s an outcry, particularly as a lot of those interested don’t remember the pre-computer days. It’s all happening very quickly, and there doesn’t seem so much of a problem with what’s available, but more that the cost is seen by some as unjust. Personally I’m just grateful that with things like Ancestry and 1837 online, I don’t have to sit on trains so much these days. I certainly don’t live on the doorstep of the NA, but a five hour return journey on Saturdays is more than worth it for me. For many people, getting to and from the Western Front seems a doddle, whereas London is held up to be impossible to reach. It just depends on circumstances I suppose. I really feel that I’ve managed well to sort out a memorial website without images of documents – everything has been transcribed, and I can’t see that having actual pages of war diaries, for instance, would be an improvement for those trying to read the pages. Blank samples can be used to demonstrate what the various forms looked like, but I’m not sure it would be informative or prettier to have a medal index card on each page. Or maybe it would... please write, enclosing stamped, addressed envelope for reply... Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 OK, This is getting confusing. If they say that you cannot use material from the documents online what about if you have gone to kew and got copies of the MIC there (incidently 20p a copy at Kew) and not used the documents online. Kate, The Essex Records is great but if you need a copy of something from there it makes The National Archives prices seem cheap, and thats saying something. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 9 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Maybe it was the way I worded it Andy!! This is what I said ... Hi! I am doing an Honour Roll for 1st Battalion South Lancs (Prince of Wales Volunteers) I have downloaded some of the medal cards available for my soldiers - 18 officers and 52 men ...... but before I go any further - I need to know if I can display them on my Honour Roll - somebody told me it was copyright enfringement and I need permission to post them! What do I need to do ? I'd appreciate your help! Thanking you in advance Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Hi Annie, I was refering to the link supplied to the NA on copyright where it states that the documents obtained through documents online cannot be reproduced. Interesting conundrum. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 9 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Andy! Can you ask next time you go? See what they tell YOU!! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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