stiletto_33853 Posted 4 January , 2006 Share Posted 4 January , 2006 History of the Division which comprised of the 59th Infantry Brigade 10th Kings Royal Rifle Corps 11th Kings Royal Rifle Corps 10th Rifle Brigade 11th Rifle Brigade 60th Infantry Brigade 6th Oxs & Bucks L.I. 6th Shropshire L.I. 12th Kings Royal Rifle Corps 12th Rifle Brigade 61st Infantry Brigade 12th Liverpool Regiment 7th Somerset L.I. 7th D.O.C.L.I. 7th K.O.Y.L.I. Pioneers 11th Durham L.I Artillery 90th Field Artillery Brigade 91st Field Artillery Brigade 92nd Field Artillery (Howitzer) Brigade 93rd Field Artillery Brigade Engineers 83rd Field Company R.E. 84th Field Company R.E. 96th Field Company R.E. Divisional Train 20th Divisional Train Signal Service 20th Divisional Signal Company R.E. Medical Units 60th Field Ambulance 61st Field Ambulance 62nd Field Ambulance Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 4 January , 2006 Share Posted 4 January , 2006 Does the history give deatils of 60 Bde's assault on 20 Nov 1917; I am particularly interested in 12 KRRC's element of the attack nera La Vacquerie. Thanx in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 7 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2006 Stephen, The book does have quite a bit on this attack. The general direction of the attack was north east, across the Hindenburg and Hindenburg Support Lines on the front of La Vicquerie and Welsh Ridge. The left boundary was Villers Plouich - Marcoing railway, the right boundary an approximately parallel line about 2500 yards to the south east. The first objective followed the general line of a track from Banteux to Ribecourt, between the road from La Vacquerie to Bonavis and the railway. La Vacquerie, a particularly strong point, was the key position of the enemy's first line of defence on the right. This village and the trenches north west of it formed an initial objective in the area of the 61st Brigade. The second and final objective included the whole of Welsh Ridge, from a point in the sunken road nearly 3000 yards north east of La Vicquerie to the railway 1200 yards south west of the railway junction at Marcoing. The 12th Division on the right and the 6th Division on the left were to attack objectives prolonging those of the 61st and 60th Brigades. By zero 6.20a.m. on the 20th, the dispositions were as follows: the 61st Brigade, under Brig - Gen Banbury, held the right of the line, with the 7th Somerset L.I. (Lt - Col Troyte-Bullock) on the right and the 7th D.C.L.I. (Lt-Col Burges Short) on the left. The 12th Kings (Lt-Col Vince) on the right and the 7th K.O.Y.L.I. (Major Storr) on the left were in support. The 6oth Brigade, under Brig - Gen Duncan, held the left of the line with the 6th Oxs & Bucks L.I. (Lt-Col Boyle), in touch with the D.C.L.I. and the 12th KRRC (Lt-Col Moore), with their left on the railway just north east of Villers Plouich. In supprt were the 6th K.S.L.I. (Lt-Col Welch) and the 12th R.B. (Lt-Col Riley). The59th Brigade, under Brig - Gen Hyslop, was concentrated in and about Gouzeaucourt.. The Division was covered by two Artillery groups. The right group, under Lt-Col Ricardo, consisted of the 92nd Brigade, the 232nd Brigade, and the 3rd Brigade R.H.A. The left group, under Lt-Col Erskine, consisted of the 91st Brigade, the 178th Brigade, and the 15th Brigade R.H.A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 7 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2006 The first wave of tans moved forward at 6.10 a.m., and at 6.20 the barrage opened along the whole front. The attack went exactly as planned from beginning to end. The Somersets and two companies of the D.C.L.I. advaced on La Vacquerie and the trenches north west of it. The garrison at these places offered little opposition and, apparently demoralised by the tanks, ran towards the Hindenburg line. La Vacquerie was taken by the Somersets about 7.30 a.m., and had been mopped up by 9 o'clock, when 80 prisoners, 6 machine guns and 2 trench mortars, had been taken. Two companies of the King, with the two remaining companies of the D.C.L.I., carried on the advance to the first objective. The enemy offered a certain amount of opposition in the Hindenburg Line and the Kings on the right suffered rather heavily, but before 10a.m. this line was taken, with 200 prisoners and many machine guns. On the front of the 60th Brigade, the 6th Oxford and Bucks L.I. and the 12th K.R.R.C. carried the defences of Welsh Ridge. The reserve company of the 12th K.R.R.C. - "B" Company, under Captain Hoare - lost heavily in attacking a strong point which held up the advance, for when this point had been taken, out of 3 officers and 96 men in the company only 34 men survived. That this company reached its objective was largely due to Rifleman A.E. Shepherd, K.R.R.C., whose gallantry was rewarded with the Victoria Cross. On the whole, however, the casualties of the 60th Brigade were few, and the first objective was occupied at 9.25a.m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 7 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2006 The advance on the final objective was more vigorously opposed. The remaining two companies of the King's and the K.O.Y.L.I. , attacking on the 61st Brigade front, encountered a good eal of resistance in the Hindenburg Support Line, a good natural position, well fortified and strongly held. Behind the line there was gun pits, some of which the enemy defended to the last. The K.O.Y.L.I. on the left fought with great dash and in spite of severe losses carried all before them. 2nd Lt Joffe, Sgt Roberts and about a dozen men of this battalion distinguished themselves by rushing a 77mm gun which continued to fire point blank till they were within fifty yards of it. The King's also forced their way forward by hard fighting and took a number of prisoners. The 60th Brigade attacked the second objective with the 6th K.S.L.I. and the 12th Rifle Brigade. The enemy gave little trouble except on the right of the R.B., where "A" Company found him defending his position throughout with determination. A particularly difficult point to carry was a nest of five machine guns and a trench mortar in the Hindenburg Support Line. Captain Fraser, commanding "A" Company, obtained the assistance of a tank, which advanced straight on the post while a party of the R.B. worked round it. When the tank came within fifty yards of the enemy a direct hit from the tench mortar killed two of the crew and severly wounded the rest. The tank section commander, Captain R.W.L. Wain, got out and rushed at the enemy with a Lewis gun, while "B" Company on the left turned the flank. In the fighting that ensued Captain Wain was killed, but the post was taken, and the only gun of the five which couldbe used was turned on to those of the enemy who were able to get away. "A" Company took over 130 prisoners, a trench mortar, and 6 machine guns during the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 7 January , 2006 Share Posted 7 January , 2006 Hi Andy The enemy gave little trouble except on the right of the R.B., This is not so, 6th K.S.L.I. on the right of the 12/R.B. also faced determined resistance. After passing through the Divisions first objective the Battalion started to meet resistance opposite "C" Coy on the left flank, two of its officers were killed before the crest of Welsh Ridge. On reaching the crest the tanks the Battalion were following came under intense fire from a Battery of field guns about 600 yards away firing over open sights, knocking out serval of the tanks. It became very unhealthy for the companies advancing down the reverse slope, though the situation was eased once the Germans abandoned the above meantioned guns as the K.S.L.I. advanced on them. "A" Coy on the right also met strong opposition before taking its final position. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 7 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2006 About eleven o'clock the final objective was taken, and the 59th brigade and the 29th Division were passing through the lines. Arrangements had been carefully made by the Divisional Signal Company to establish communication as the attack progressed. The tanks, however, made samll work of the ground lines as they were laid, and recourse had to be made to a ploed cable route on each brigade front, which was successfully established in due course. Meanwhile at 10.30am the 91st Field Artillery was ordered forward to the north east of La Vacquerie. Good positions were found along the trackfrom Banteux to Ribecourt between the roads leading from La Vacquerie to Bonavis and Masnieres. Batteries were held up by tanks which had stuck in the sunken road, but managed to come into action during the afternoon. Starting from Gouzeacourt at zero the 59th brigade moved forward, and led by the 10th and 11th Rifle Brigade, with a troop of the 1/1st Northumberland Yeomanry under Catain the Hon. C.F.M. Ramsay, left the old front line at 9.10 am to follow the assaulting battalions. By 11am this advanced guard was passing through the second objective. The 11th Rifle Brigade (Lt-Col Cotton) advanced in open order along the north west slope of the La Vacquerie valley to seize the crossings over the canal; the 10th R.B. (Lt-Col Troughton), to whom the two troops of Yeomanry were attached, deployed along the south east slope before moving onto form the defensive flank. In rear of these two battalions the 10th K.R.R.C. (Lt-Col Sheepshanks) fromed up in the valley on either side of th sunken road and the 11th K.R.R.C. (Lt-Col Priaulx) took up a position about the crossing of the sunken road and the track from Banteux to Ribecourt. The 11th R.B. advanced on a two company front. They came under a certain amount of shelling, but parties of the enemy who tried to hold them back by long range fire, seeing the tanks and infantry coming on, either withdrew or gave themselves up. "B" Company on the left, moving towards a bridge east of Marcoing, encountered an enemy strong point about 800 yards south of the canal, but an outflanking movement byLewis guns and bombers soon brought about the surrender of the garrison, which was estimated at 150 men. The bridge-head was then occupied and troops of the 29th Division crossed unopposed. "C" Company on the right had little difficulty, except from a machine gun whish for a time delayed its progress; the gun was silenced by a tank, and the company then entered Les Rues Vertes. Here between twelve and one o'clock a certain amount of street fighting took place, but the village was cleared as far as the canal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 8 January , 2006 Share Posted 8 January , 2006 Stlletto Many many thanx for taking the trouble to type up the history. Archie Hoare of 12 KRRC is one of "my" Grateley men and I had hoped to find evidence that he was Albert Shepherd's company commander - I surmissed as much from other histories but had no proof. That said, there is always a twist; the Div history seems to place the scene of Shepherd's VC to the north of where is reported in other books - never mind, it's another good reason to go back to La Vacquerie and check out the ground. Once again - many thanx Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 8 January , 2006 Share Posted 8 January , 2006 (edited) Hi Stephen Rifleman Shepherd was Captain Hoare's orderly according to The K.R.R.C. Chronicle. Rifleman Shepherd took command of the company once Captain Hoare was killed (all N.C.O. either killed or wounded) I have not got much time at mo but will scan pages covering this attack. Annette Edited 8 January , 2006 by 6th Shropshires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 8 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2006 Hi Annette, Thanks for that, the page this comes from in the Divisional History I have attached. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 8 January , 2006 Share Posted 8 January , 2006 Hi Andy The trouble with most Divisional Histories is that they never give full coverage, but saying that I find the 20th Division History is one of the best that I have. Also most Regimental Histories do not give a full picture, I guess because of lack of space and money. Now if someone in power at the end of the war had got every Battalion and other units to write a full account wouldn't that have been great for us, then again I find it most rewarding haveing to go dig out the facts for myself. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 8 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2006 Hi Annette, I could not agree more with the bit about Divisional Histories, but as you so rightly say it's great to dig and dig until the facts do come out. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 8 January , 2006 Share Posted 8 January , 2006 "Rifleman Shepherd was Captain Hoare's orderly according to The K.R.R.C. Chronicle. Rifleman Shepherd took command of the company once Captain Hoare was killed (all N.C.O. either killed or wounded) I have not got much time at mo but will scan pages covering this attack." Hi Annette The more I visit this site, the more amazed I am at how disparet events link togtehr. his latest link in my quest to Archie Hoare has me gob-smacked - I never could have imagined that Shepherd was his orderly. Works fail me - please let me know more if you can Then the next link to find, which of the tanks from I and A Bn did Shepherd locate and bring forward! On....on.....on Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 8 January , 2006 Share Posted 8 January , 2006 (edited) Hi Stephen Could you email me, then I can attach the 5 or 6 pages covering the attack to the reply. Plus I think I have a trench map covering the area attacked by the 20th Div. , I'll look tomorrow to see. By the way the Chronicle mentions Shepherd requisition of a tank but does not say which one, may the Tank museum can help there. Annette Edited 8 January , 2006 by 6th Shropshires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 9 January , 2006 Share Posted 9 January , 2006 Hi Annette - I have PM'd my e-mail address to you; thanx for the offer of help. As for the Tank's identity, I will contact the Tank Museum - there are no clues in "Follwing the tanks" by Jibot and Gorzinski but some-one may know. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 8 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2006 The offer of look ups for this Divisional History are being withdrawn due to recent events and the apparent inabilty of certain forum members to debate the Great War. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 8 February , 2006 Share Posted 8 February , 2006 Andy - fully understood; I hope I have not caused you offence in any way Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 9 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2006 Stephen, Nothing to do with you at all, I am more than willing to assist people in any way that I can so if you need anything let me know. Just thoroughly fed up with recent happenings on the forum. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 9 February , 2006 Share Posted 9 February , 2006 Andy thanx - I too am concerned that some of recent happenings have been out of place but the "beastliness" will now abate. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 18 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2006 Stephen, I am more than a little concerned to the point that I am now deleting posts that I have made to help people and some of my research. Once again this forum has shown its inability to hold a serious debate concerning the Great War but has developed a new crop of membership that is more concerned with berating its members, debating Cricket, burning the flag or Prince Harry's bodyguards. And what's worse Moderators that appear lack lustre in taking any action led by a leader that appears to hold high the insults thrown by new members. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 20 February , 2006 Share Posted 20 February , 2006 Andy Sorry to take so long to acknowledge your reply - I feel much the same. Sadkly my offer as a moderator was not taken up but I hope I can stay above it all and be helpful to the new ones. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki32 Posted 25 October , 2007 Share Posted 25 October , 2007 Hi, I'm not sure whether you could help me. I am trying to find out some info on a relative of mine who was serving with the 11th Kings Royal Rifles and was killed in action on the 9th February 1917. His name was Victor Halliday. Would you be willing to have a look and see if you could see where he was and what he would have been doing around the time of his death? I would really appreciate it. Nikki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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