7th Division Signal Coy. 20th Infantry Brigade

[helen2807]

Hi everyone

I'm researching my grandfather's WW1 service. He was a Brigade Section Sargeant with the 7th Division Signal Company, 20th Infantry Brigade.

His papers cover the period from Loos to Vittorio Veneto and mention establishing Brigade Headquarters for varions actions he was involved in. Sometimes he was at Brigade and sometimes Advance Brigade - he does mention some of these locations which I am trying to locate on trench maps. How far back from the front line would Brigade Hq and Advance Brigade have been?

Thanks

Helen

[jhill]

Hello and welcome to the forum. I cannot speak for your man's particular unit. My understanding from looking at other units is that although there was always a Brigade Headquarters, an advanced HQ was usually set up in conjunction with an advance. A major requirement was that the HQ was far enough back so that it could be connected to the rear by a buried telephone cable. In the Passchendaele operations of 1917, for example, some brigades had their headquarters about 4000 yards behind the line, and the advanced headquarters perhaps a thousand yards or so farther forward. Your milage may vary.

[Robert Dunlop]

Helen, welcome to the Forum. The locations of brigade and advanced brigade HQs varied considerably. The latter was typically quite close to the new front line, it was a subset of the brigade HQ that went forward to provide command and control in the midst of an attack. The advance brigade HQ could not be too close to the actual fighting front, as this would distract the function of the HQ. The location would often be chosen before the attack began but would be modified by how far the advance proceeded (if at all) and what cover was available for the HQ. The issue of cover related not just to a large enough dug-out or other hard cover that could accommodate the staff. It was also important to ensure that the approaches to the HQ were hidden. HQs were easily spotted by the volume of traffic, notably messengers, that came and went from the entrance.

The same considerations applied to permanent brigade HQs, excepting that the numbers of staff and the volume of traffic was significantly greater. Brigadier General Gleichen wrote about these issues in his book 'Doings of the Fifteenth Infantry Brigade August 1914 to March 1915'. In the following extract, Gleichen highlights why the Brigade HQ could not be too close:

"Our own Headquarters were in a poky little dug-out in a wood (really only a half roofed-in little trench), not 200 yards from our firing trenches. There was just room for two to lie down in it, and there was a little tunnel out of it. The Bedfords were put into the trenches on the eastern edge of the wood, the Cheshires continued the line to the south and for a couple of hundred yards outside the wood, and the West Ridings were in reserve at the back of the wood, in rear of our dug-out.

I did not like our place at all, for it seemed to me that, being so close to the firing line, I should not be able to get out or control the little force if there were heavy operations on; and this is exactly what did happen."

Having provided some general considerations for you to think about, I am sure others on the Forum will be able to provide you with more precise and 20th Infantry Brigade-specific information.

Robert

Edited 2 January , 2006 by Robert Dunlop

[brindlerp]

Recommended reading:

"

SEVENTH DIVISION 1914-1918

A regular division formed September 1914, to France in October. Regarded by Cyil Falls as one of the greatest fighting formations Britain ever sent to war. Served on Western front to November 1917 and then sent to Italy. Order of battle with changes, command and staff lists. 68,000 casualties , fourteen VCs

This is a very good history by one who is also the author of several regimental histories of the Great War. Cyril Falls regarded the 7th Division as one of the greatest fighting formations Britain ever sent to war. It landed initially in Zeebrugge in October 1914 as part of a force intended to relieve Antwerp, but almost immediately moved down to Ypres where it joined the main BEF. It fought in many of the major battles on the Western Front before being sent to Italy at the end of 1917 where it saw out the war. There are a number of useful appendices giving order of battle information with all changes in units, commanders and staff. Tables of casualties by units are given in the text for each major battle in which the division was involved; altogether the division suffered 68,000 casualties, among the highest recorded for any division. No list of honours and awards other than VCs. Plenty of sketch maps are very helpful in illustrating the actions being described.

Author: by C.T.Atkinson

Format: 2001Reprint by N & M Press (original 1927). SB. x + 529pp with 8 b/w illus and 36 maps.

ISBN: 1843421194

Price: £ 22.00

"

From http://www.naval-military-press.com/FMPro?...ameset.htm&-new

Regards

Richard

[helen2807]

Thank you, this explains a lot in my grandfathers notebook. He called it a diary but it is basically a list of dates and places with more detail for the actions he saw.

For example, these are his entries for Passchendaele, October 1917....

Sept 29 - Oct 2 :Entrained at Arques for Abele and marched to Reminghelst, arrived there at night time, in the middle of an air raid. Stayed in huts at Reminghelst, air raids every night

Oct 2-3 : Moved to Chateau Segard in huts

Oct 3-10 : Moved up thro Ypres to Hooge Crater. I went up to Adv. Bde at The Butts. Very successful stunt. Smith (Butch) was killed here. Intense shelling, and after the stunt numerous casualties.

Oct 10-11 : Moved to Zillebeke Lake

Oct 12-13 : Moved to Scottish wood near Dickebush

Oct 13-23 : Moved to Hekskan Camp

Oct 23-25 : Moved to Confusion Corner. Went up to Battle Hqrs two days before the troops - to take over lines

Oct 26-27 : Bde Hqrs in Hedge St dugout - accomodation for 3 Batns: all lit up by electricity etc. I went up to Adv Bde for the stunt. Got the MM for keeping in touch with the units. Numerous casualties (wet)

Oct 27-28 : Back to Confusion Corner

Oct 28-29 : Moved to Fairy House

Oct 29 : Entrained at Ouderdom. Detrained at Ebblingham and marched to Blairingham

So I can see him spending time at rest areas: moving up to prepare for advances and then taking part in short hectic periods quite close to the front line before moving back out. It must have been extremely wearing because he went out sick with Trench Fever in early November.

Thank you again and I will check out the history of the Seventh Division

Helen