Swally Posted 30 December , 2005 Share Posted 30 December , 2005 Hi Guys, A guid New Year to Yin an Aw when it comes, I need your help again chaps. I had an uncle to Emigrated to USA around 1911 and I have had a great deal of bother trying to find out what happened to him. Through various other sites I have been able to get him (or possibly not him) on the 1930 Census in Washington. The age is a few years out but having traced previous Uncles I know that a few years does not matter either way. His name was John Smith Allan and was born in Aberdeen 22/2/1892 and gives his occupation as a labourer on the railroad but the curious thing is that it states he was a vetern of the World War fighting for the USA and that he emigrated to America 1912 but it states he was not naturalised. My question is how would he be able to fight for USA if he was not naturalised ? Thanks again guys, Swally (I'm away awa tae hiv a swally fir Auld Lang Syne) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 30 December , 2005 Share Posted 30 December , 2005 Swally - Actually even to this day you don't need to be a US Citizen to fight in our armed forces. Do you know if he was in Washington State or Washington DC? Starting from there the Forum Pals might be able to help you out. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMMo Posted 31 December , 2005 Share Posted 31 December , 2005 And I must add, sadly, that some said they were veterans who weren't. It was just a reply to a question asked by the census taker with no verification. Mike Morrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swally Posted 31 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2005 Guys, Thanks for the information, I thought that you had to be Naturalised to fight for a particular country. In the 1930 Census he is a railroad worker in Pierce County, Washington State. Is there an American equivilant of this site? I don't have much to go on apart from his date of birth in Aberdeen, his shipping line in 1911 and his appearance on the 1930 Census................it may well be a needle in a haystack. Again thanks for the help, Swally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 31 December , 2005 Share Posted 31 December , 2005 To this day US military recruiters visit Canadian Indian (whoops, First Nations) reserves to openly recruit for their various branches. In particular the US Marine Corps attracts large numbers of native Canadians. Apparently their aboriginal status allows for their movement on both sides of the border. In addition, many non-native Canadians also join the American military. I had two members of my reserve artillery battery join the USMC recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 31 December , 2005 Share Posted 31 December , 2005 A quick search on ellisisland.org shows 7 John Allans processed between 1910-13. Their residence are -Blautyro, Scotland;Forfar, Scotland; Forres, Scotland; Kirkendbright, Scotland; Lanark, Scotland; Patrea, Montana; and Weede, U.S.A not sure if any of those locations mean anything to you. Its important to remember though, a person might have tried to make it in another city before leaving for the US. Although he might be from Aberdeen he went to one of these locations for another reason before coming over. It might be worth you while to register at the site too and doing some searching see what you find. The records will usually list the important info - height, weight, age but most importantly where the person is going. For example while researching my great uncles when they came over they all listed their sister by name as thier initial destination in the US. This is a great unique identifier (when listed) and gives some direction where to continue the search. Sometimes the closest living relative at home is listed, so if you see your grandfather or grandmother's names list, again you know you have your man. Also regarding Pierce Co and WA state - here is the link http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/PC/. Not sure if it will help, but you might contact the library system to see if they have access to historical census records. In the US we do a census every 10 years (1920, 30, 40, etc). They might have internet access and you can see if he was still there in 1940, and if he had a family. You might also look into railroad history - Western Pacific - to see where their depots and terminals were... you should check those county census records if he relocated out of Pierce County. There are a lot of options to find his civilian activity and military activity... Hope this gives you a starting point. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 31 December , 2005 Share Posted 31 December , 2005 The US for one is eager to have foreign nationals fighting for it. A substantial number of the GIs in Iraq are not US citizens; I think I saw the figure of 13% once. In fact, a legal US resident of foreign citizenship will have his application for US citizenship advanced by several years if he joins the military. (I just read your post again, and you state that you got individual info on people from the 1930 Census. Read my paragraph below, I am quite amazed at what you received. Can you post some info on what you got, from where, etc? I am really surprised. I have worked a lot with Census materials professionally. Possibly the restriction I encountered was laid down locally. But it would be surprising if material on living people would be released, possibly leading to various forms of mischief, including facilitating falsely obtaining documents like replacement birth certificates to in turn assume a false identity.) Andy has given you much useful advice, but I must enter one caviat; local historical societies can obtain census materials, but I believe that they do not receive (probably), or at least can not distribute, information for individual people until it is certain that they are dead. For example, I obtained, 15 years ago, the census data for my house from the local historical society, and the year that they were able to release was for the census of 1870, 120 years prior to its release. Good luck with your search. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PilgrimDuke Posted 31 December , 2005 Share Posted 31 December , 2005 http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/sep2003/a092903d.html The attached article states that about 3000 of current US forces in Iraq are not US citizens (that is those in the US military) and that approximately 37,000 of those in the US Army are not citizens. I couldn't find the rules for the time of the Great War, but I can't imagine the standards on something like this tightening. I also couldn't find a reference, but I'm under the impression that non-citizens cannot be officer. As Bob said, citizenship applications are speeded up. This is discussed in the US citiizenship application website. Another place that is heavily recruited is the Phillipines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 31 December , 2005 Share Posted 31 December , 2005 Here is another good site.... www.census.gov Also remember census records are kept by the state so regulations about what is available and when would be determined on a local level. I have never looked for 'recent' (less than 50 years) data so I am not familiar with what may or may not be available. Although it seems logical that there would be privacy issues. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 1 January , 2006 Share Posted 1 January , 2006 Swally - Actually even to this day you don't need to be a US Citizen to fight in our armed forces. In the early 90's I was sat outside of a Navy Recruiting office in Athens, Georgia, waiting for a lift off of my father in law so we could go fishing. After about 20 minutes I was becoming more and more irate at the non-appearance of Paul and started to pace up and down the pavement. After a short while the most impressive military man I have ever seen emerged out of the recruiting office and said that I shouldn't be nervous, and I could come inside and have a chat without obligation. I explained that 1/ I was waiting for my father in law and had no intention of joining the military and 2/ I was English and therefore wouldn't qualify. We chatted for a while and he said that my foreign national status would only come into play if I wanted to join certain branches of the service. He was a very nice man and displayed more spit and polish than a whole Guards battalion. He was so spick and span that he actually squeaked when he walked away. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 1 January , 2006 Share Posted 1 January , 2006 (edited) Somewhere on this forum is a link to a site in memory of the American servicemen and women who have been killed in Iraq. I was amazed to see the places that some of them came from. Everywhere from Pakistan to Poland! Maybe someone can post the link below here in order that others might visit the site? Edited 1 January , 2006 by BeppoSapone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 4 January , 2006 Share Posted 4 January , 2006 Somewhere on this forum is a link to a site in memory of the American servicemen and women who have been killed in Iraq. I was amazed to see the places that some of them came from. Everywhere from Pakistan to Poland! Maybe someone can post the link below here in order that others might visit the site? Sorry, a bit late off the mark on this one...been away on holiday. You do not need to be a citizen to serve in the US Armed forces. A few years ago I met a Russian fellow in the USAF who was exactly in this category. He was frustrated, as he wanted to work in the intelligence field, but due to his place of birth and status he was not allowed a clearance. He had to be happy helping people ship their furniture when they moved bases. I've served with people from Russia, Serbia, Germany, even the UK. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 4 January , 2006 Share Posted 4 January , 2006 I have e-mailed the State of Washington to see if they have a summary of service card for Mr. Allan, I will keep you posted. Always having a rather large number of immigrants in the country, the US has always had a large number of immigrants in the military. Check out 'Americans All' by Nancy Gentile Ford regarding foreign-born men in WWI. Most US first person accounts are sprinkled with anecdotes of Polish and German speaking Americans intereacting with German troops, apparently much to the Germans surprise (as if the Germans were unaware of the huge number of German-speaking people who left Germany) Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 5 January , 2006 Share Posted 5 January , 2006 Sorry, a dead end. I received the following from the Secretary of State's office: Dear Neil, Thank you for your request. I have conducted a search for John Smith Allan, born in Aberdeen Scotland in the WWI Servicemen Card Index. Since, his name is common, I cross reference with his birth location and I was unable to locate him. You could refer your request to the Dept. of Veterans Affairs http://www.dva.wa.gov/ they could possibly assist you. You can check with the Veterans Affairs Office. Good Luck, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mueller Posted 5 January , 2006 Share Posted 5 January , 2006 To All, American census records are sealed for 70 years, therefore 1930 is the most recent available to the public. Don't expect too much help from the VA (Veteran's Affairs). A huge fire at their record depot in 1976 (or there abouts) destroyed many veterans files. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 5 January , 2006 Share Posted 5 January , 2006 Hi Robert, The link is actually to the State of Washington's Veterans affairs, there is a slight chance they can assist. hope springs eternal, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 5 January , 2006 Share Posted 5 January , 2006 Robert - just to clarify, you must mean specific personally identifying information is sealed for 70 years. General, non individually specific data is widely available almost immediately after the census is completed. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mueller Posted 5 January , 2006 Share Posted 5 January , 2006 Yes, of course. I assume Swally was looking for specific info on his relative. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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