Dave Phillips Posted 29 December , 2005 Share Posted 29 December , 2005 Hi On a small memorial on the wall of the Lichfield Brewery, Staffordshire there is a amongst others a casualty: Pte. Edward Smith 3rd Black Watch I can find no Edward Smith who was a casualty with the 3rd Reserve Battalion, but there is an individual who died with the 1st Battalion with a number '3/1893'. Would the '3' refer to him originally belonging to the Reserve Battalion? I cannot work out his link with Lichfield as he was born in Glasgow and enlisted in Dundee where his mother lived. Maybe he only worked at the brewery for short while? Any help gratefully recieved Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 29 December , 2005 Share Posted 29 December , 2005 Hello, Yes, the 3/ prefix does indicate that he served with the 3rd Battalion. do you have any details regarding the day he died ? If not, I have the Great War history for the Black Watch, if he was killed in action, I can look up the details and let you know what the 1st Bn was up to. Regards, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Lund Posted 29 December , 2005 Share Posted 29 December , 2005 In the West Riding Regiment this 3/ prefix is quite common, I think they used it when they sent a man to a front line battalion just in case a 3rd Battalion man might have the same number as a 1st or 2nd Battalion man, so 3/ would make his number unique. Of course that is just my opinion and could be wrong. There is a man on the Holmfirth Memorial called William Thomas Sydney Smith, born at Chelsea and enlisted at Fulham. The only local connection I can find is that he died on the same day in the same battalion as two Holmfirth men. There is no mention of him at all in the local newspaper, but his name is there for all to see on the memorial, and there will not be two men with a name like that. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 29 December , 2005 Share Posted 29 December , 2005 Dave, Had a quick trawl through CWGC - might this be your man? Another comment: often the Scottish regiments used the prefix 'S' (such as below) which denotes a 'service' recruit - ie. for the duration only and not a regular. Might be mistranscribed as a '3' ? Looking at the date and location for the below serviceman I would hazard a guess that he was on occupation duty. Ian SMITH, EDWARD THOMAS Initials: E T Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment: Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) Unit Text: 3rd Bn. Age: 20 Date of Death: 31/05/1919 Service No: S/19499 Additional information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. F. Smith, of Leicester. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. B. 6. Cemetery: COLOGNE SOUTHERN CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredJCarss Posted 29 December , 2005 Share Posted 29 December , 2005 Hi the 3rd Bn never went overseas but supplied countless men to other Battalions to make up losses so they could turn up with a 3 prefix anywhere. The E. Smith KIA 1st Bn. This is the 1st Bn War Diary for the day - 2.11.14 120th. Regiment (French) advance through our lines for attack but under heavy shrapnel attack dies away. Germans attack along MENIN road about 1500 yards to our right and carry barricade held by Brigade on our right. Under orders from Brigadier Gen. FITZCLARENCE the 1st.Bde. Reserve A, B & C Coys. of the Battn. under Capt. AMERY make counter attack, which though only 120 men and enfiladed by two machine guns, successfully stops German advance. Capt. FORTUNE's action on left was especially commended by Brigadier. These companies holding the line on the right of Scots Guards until relieved from 3rd.Bde. at dusk. (See Appendix A.) Casualties. Officers - Died of Wounds Lieut. R.P.D. NOLAN (3rd.Bn.) Wounded Capt. H.F.S. AMERY 2nd.Lt. J.L. RENNIE. Rank & File Killed 5. Wounded 34. Missing 21. As to which man it is ? Well its a bit of a lottery I am afraid! Best of luck Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Phillips Posted 30 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2005 Hi Thanks Stewart for the info. and offer of the diary extract: as you an see Fred has supplied it. Thanks Tony, I thought I had read something similar about prefix numbers. Thanks Ian, it could so easilly be a typo., but the memorial does clearly show 3rd Btn. Thankyou for looking through the GWGC (I had done something similar there are so many E Smiths! It could well be my man. Thanks for the diary extract Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 30 December , 2005 Share Posted 30 December , 2005 Dave, Re 'S' or '3' - I was refering to the serviceman's number rather than the battalion. - ie. was it 3/1893 or S/1893 ? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Phillips Posted 30 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2005 Ian Sorry for the confusion his number was 3/1893 on both SDGW and CWGC. Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 30 December , 2005 Share Posted 30 December , 2005 Dave, Yep, I also now see that is how it comes up on the National Archives MIC, under Smith, E. Royal Highlanders. No more ideas with me then, so good hunting. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredJCarss Posted 31 December , 2005 Share Posted 31 December , 2005 Hi Dave I thought you might just like the mentioned Appendix "A" so here it is:- APPENDIX. "A" 2.11.14 The counter attack was made by throwing forward each Coy., separately, as quickly as possible. Captain FORTUNE with 2 Platoons went forward just at 1.p.m. and got within 200 yards of the main road, by which the German main attack advanced. Captain AMERY with B.& C. Coys. joined him in 10 minutes time, extending line to the left, but lost severely when going through a gap in the hedge on which a German Machine Gun was trained. Lieut.NOLAN also led his Platoon on the left of C.Coy. very boldly forward. The German Machine Gun caught this last Platoon, mortally wounding Lieut. NOLAN and causing about 15 casualties, but the German forward movement stopped. Captain FORTUNE succeeded in prolonging the line facing S.E. on the right of the Scots Guards. Captain AMERY was badly hit in three places and 2/Lieut. RENNIE was severely wounded, but the rest of "B" & "C" Coys. rejoined the half of "A" Coy. in the gap near the main MENIN Road. No.313 Cpl. CULPIN C.Coy. was especially prominent for good leadership. No.1008 Cpl. REDPATH C.Coy. took forward those men of B.Coy. who were left without a leader on the extreme left, after the fall of Lieut. NOLAN. The whole German attack fell back except for snipers who still occupied some houses in VELDHOEK and some advanced pits dug by the Zouaves two days previously. After dark "A", "B" & "C " Coys. under Captain FORTUNE (about 75 men in all) were withdrawn, and a new line was taken up somewhat in rear of the original one. Have a good new year! Im off now to get my kilt on and get ready for the major assault on my liver Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 31 December , 2005 Share Posted 31 December , 2005 SNWM confirms Details Surname SMITH Firstname Edward Service Number 3/1893 Date Death 02/11/1914 Decoration Place of birth Glasgow Other 1st Bn. SNWM roll THE BLACK WATCH (ROYAL HIGHLANDERS) Rank Pte Theatre of death F.& F. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Phillips Posted 31 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2005 Thanks Fred and Malcolm Have a Happy New Year Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now