Sidney Smith RFC

[johking]

I wonder if anyone can help me to find out more about the WW1 record of my grandfather, Sidney Smith (unfortunately it is a common surname).

He remained in the RAF all his life and was in the RFC in WW1. Family legend has it that he flew Sopwith Camels and fired out of them with a rifle at enemy planes (can this be true?). Also his nickname was "Crasher" Smith because he had an eye defect that meant he tended to scrape the undercarriage when he tried to land!

I believe he was a Group Captain at the time of his marriage after the war and my mother also used to tell us that he got the DFC with bar and a French honour too.

I have tried looking him up on the Internet and not got very far. Is there any reference work that might shed more light?

Any information gratefully received

Jo

[MikeW]

Jo,

Smith might be a common name but there was only one crasher Smith.

Sidney Smith DSO AFC CdeG was an original member & flight commander of 27 squadron RFC who went to france in March 16. An ex-artillary man, he was christened Crasher by 27's CO, Major AE Borton. During WW2 as agroup captain, Smith served again, at one time being Commandant of the London Command Air Trining Corps.

I have summarised an entry from "Fighter Pilot On The Western Front" by ED Crundall - long out of print but you should have no trouble tracking down a used copy. Crasher is mentioned a number of times in the book, from his period in charge of Aeroplane Flying at Cranwell.

ISBN 0 7183 01447 - I suggest you try AbeBooks.com

Mike

p.s. Forget the rubbish about a rifle and a Camel - you needed both hands on the joystick!

[johking]

Hi Mike

That's brilliant - many thanks. I've had a look for that book and as you say it is easily available. This is very exciting for me and I've just phoned my brother up to tell him.

Is there anywhere I could find out the citation for his DSO or his Croix de Guerre? Perhaps it is detailed in the book? If so I'll find out when I get it, so don't bother to write it out or anything.

All the best and thanks again

Jo

[MikeW]

Jo,

I'm not an RFC or RAF man, others here know infinitely more than me. I only know of Crasher via his association with Crundall, an RNAS pilot, who served with him at Cranwell in the early days of the RAF in 1918.

I can tell you that there should be something about the DSO and AFC in the London Gazette database which you can search on-line but with a surname of Smith you are going to have to wade through thousands of records. The Croix de Guerre is more problematical, sometimes they are mentioned, sometimes not.

Get to the gazette by clicking here:

London Gazette

good luck

Mike

[johking]

Hi Mike

That was a great link. There were only 36 Sidney Smiths and, apart from a tedious solicitor muddying the waters with the same name, it was pretty straightforward.

I found his promotion to Major in the RFA, and listings for his Croix de Guerre, DSO, AFC and mentioned in despatches.

Many thanks again

Jo

[MattyBoy]

There is also a photo of Crasher Smith in my copy of Crundall's book.

I will see if I can add any bits of info on Smith, when I get home later tonight.

[johking]

That would be great if you can be bothered, MattyBoy

Jo

[MattyBoy]

Sorry Jo,

Got sidetracked yesterday and it's my friends birthday today, so I'll see if I can find anything useful over the Christmas Weekend !!!

[APW]

Jo

Major Sidney (Crasher) Smith is mentioned in Chaz Bowyer's history of 27 Squadron "The Flying Elephants". He was temporarily in command of 27 Sqn before Biffy Borton arrived and then succeeded him as CO in July 1916.

If you have a WW1 photo of him I would be interested to see it - I have a photo from 27 Sqn which may be of him - see www.apw.airwar1.co.uk/no27sqn.htm

Patrick

[johking]

If you have a WW1 photo of him I would be interested to see it - I have a photo from 27 Sqn which may be of him - see www.apw.airwar1.co.uk/no27sqn.htm

Hi Patrick

I found the site - .org.uk, not .co.uk. It is excellent. I really like the way you have presented the information, by the way, good design...and also most informative. It is a fascinating read, with the immediacy given by the log book entries.

I think that is Sidney Smith in the photo. Unfortunately I don't have the family photo archive here, but I'm pretty sure. I'll circulate your link to my brothers and sisters and see what they think, and when I get my hands on a photo I'll send you a copy.

I see you quote from an RFC Communiqué - where would you find that sort of information? The other thing I would really like to know are the citations for his medals. Would they be in his service record, do you know?

Many thanks again for your help

Jo

[Adrian Roberts]

Jo

Family legend has it that he flew Sopwith Camels and fired out of them with a rifle at enemy planes (can this be true?).

27 sqn were flying the Martinsyde G100 Elephant in Spring 1916 (hence, "Flying Elephants"), as Patrick's website says. The RFC still had no synchronising gear to enable machine guns to be fired through the propeller at this time; normally the Elephant had a rather makeshift armament of a Lewis gun mounted on the top wing. It is just possible that Sidney Smith may have resorted to firing a rifle out of the cockpit - I don't think that on these earlier mountings the Lewis could be pulled down for reloading, so the rifle might have been a standby. But generally that type of combat did not last beyond the early months of the war. He may well have flown a Camel later but there would have been no need to use a rifle by then and the enemy wouldn't have been too impressed.

Adrian

Edited 25 December , 2005 by Adrian Roberts

[APW]

I see you quote from an RFC Communiqué - where would you find that sort of information? The other thing I would really like to know are the citations for his medals. Would they be in his service record, do you know?

Many thanks again for your help

Jo

Jo

Apologies, I had the website address wrong but glad you found it (www.apw.airwar1.org.uk).

Christopher Cole has published a book on the RFC Communiques 1915-1916 (try abebooks.com). Sidney Smith has three mentions. After that he was probably too senior to get a mention - they were focused on operational flying. Not sure about the citations, London Gazette should have them somewhere. His personal file at the National Archives should have something.

I agree with Adrian about the rifle and Camels but it is possible that he used a rifle as an observer in 1915 (the Camel arrived in 1917).

Patrick

[johking]

Thank you Adrian and Patrick for restoring my faith in family legend!

Not sure about the citations, London Gazette should have them somewhere. His personal file at the National Archives should have something.

I have checked all the London Gazette entries for Sidney Smith and he is just in a list of names. I suppose there may be further details somewhere under his initials, but the thought of searching through 2471 S. Smith entries is a tad daunting...

Jo

[pearsonica]

Hi My Grandfather was a Flight Commander under Sydney Smith. He was Captain Kenneth Noble Pearson. His action with Smith on 6th July Flying at 14000ft in MS 7300 with his CO Major Sydney Smith in MS 7271 - Pearson fired a red flare and dived for the enemy. Smith lost his port Aileron wires and returned to base taking 3 of the enemy with him. Pearson fort on returning over an hour later. This action is shown in a Painting in the Officers Mess in Andover It shows Smith with the 3 Enemy Aircraft chasing him home. I attach the report of this action his grandson sent to me.  I also attach the Squadron Emblem painted on my Grandfather Aircraft. I know my Grandfather could paint and draw as he was an Engineering draftsman by trade so it is quite likely that he painted these motifs on the aircraft.