gnr.ktrha Posted 20 December , 2005 Share Posted 20 December , 2005 Hello, A couple of relatives served in the Royal Navy in the Great war and I have been able to download there service sheets. Most of it is fairly straight forward and I have been able to workout other things through the vast amount of information on this great web site. However, I'm having a bit of trouble with a Sub Rating and cannot for the life of me work out what it is. The first listed is ''T.M'', which I understand means ''Trained Man'' The Second is, or looks like ''Q a'' The third looks like ''T.M'' again. Any ideas what ''Q a'' is ? Does anyone have a list of Sub Ratings ? Thanks for looking, Regards, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 20 December , 2005 Share Posted 20 December , 2005 Trained Man =TM Qa ;I think it may mean AB which should follow TM in the ranks. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 20 December , 2005 Share Posted 20 December , 2005 Hi, QA.... Quarters Armourer, its a trade. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 21 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 21 December , 2005 Hello, Thanks for this information. Would he have worn a trade badge ? Would it have been the one with a with asingle gun barrel with crossed axe and double headed hammer and 6 pointed star ? I have a 1916 dated hand book called ''Service Medals, Ribbons, Badges and Flags'' It has the above badge listed as ''Chief and other Armourers''. There is also one without a star which is ''Armourers Mates & Crew'' Where on a ship would the QA serve ? { ? Workshop, Gun turret etc ?} Thanks for your time, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 21 December , 2005 Share Posted 21 December , 2005 Stewart, Can you post that part of the service certificate which has his Rating and Sub rating, the rating is his Rank and Sub rating is his trade or courses passed. The armourers you are quoting are Ranks and would not be in the Sub Ratings section. Quarters Armourer is a course seamen and marines take to assist the armourers. 403. Armourer's Work.-The Captain is to detail the following proportions of Seamen or Marines for continuous work with the Armourer's staff of the ship, preference being given to volunteers who have shown skill in mechanical and stokehold work : Battleships and 1st class cruisers 4 2nd class cruisers 2 Special service vessels, such as instructional ships, to be excepted. 2. The period of training is to be six months in the case of men who have previously undergone instruction in mechanical and stokehold work, and twelve months in the case of men who have not previously undergone such instruction. 3. At the expiration of their period of training the men are to be examined, and, if found efficient, the notation " Qualified in Armourer's work " (" Q.A.") is to be made on their certificates. 4. Men who have so qualified are to be employed for three months during a commission, in order to keep up their knowledge, but are not to be granted extra pay while so employed. 5. Seamen and Marines who have qualified in armourer's work in the above manner may be employed as Armourer's Assistants in vacancies under authority of the Captain, or under the special authority of the Commander-in-Chief, when required to assist the Armourer's staff in any special or unusually heavy work. When employed in either capacity they are to receive extra pay at the rate laid down in Article 1468 clause 3, Class II. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEB Posted 22 December , 2005 Share Posted 22 December , 2005 Can anyone tell me what "G/B" and "SG" signify in the Sub-Ratings and Badges column? Thanks in advance, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 22 December , 2005 Share Posted 22 December , 2005 John, SG.... Seaman Gunner G/B..... could be GCB in the badges column meaning Good Conduct Badge. Hope it helps Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 27 December , 2005 Share Posted 27 December , 2005 QA - Quarters Armourer did not exist as a rating until 1951. Expect this might be Qualified Gunner - but I have to view the entry to be sure - can you post a scan of his SR Stewart? Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 27 December , 2005 Share Posted 27 December , 2005 Sorry my mistake, getting the Great War and my time in mixed up, as RCNVR says a scan would help “QA” … “Qualified in Armourers work” Kings Regulations & Admiralty Instructions 1913 Chapter VIII Section VI (Non Substantive Ratings) Article 403(3) 3. At the expiration of their period of training the men are to be examined, and, if found efficient, the notation " Qualified in Armourer's work " (" Q.A.") is to be made on their certificates. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 Can anyone tell me what "G/B" and "SG" signify in the Sub-Ratings and Badges column? Thanks in advance, John G1B, D1B, R1B - in the Badges column all pertain to the Good Conduct Badges. I need to view the SR to 'translate' the entries tho Strewart, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgamesh of Uruk Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 Stewart - if you don't have access to a scanner but do have the ability to fax stuff, email me privately & I'll do the needful for you, if that's any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 28 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 December , 2005 Hello All, Thanks for all the above information. Sorry that I have not posted the image sooner, been having a bit of trouble downloading it, so have had to cut off most of the service sheet. Regards, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 (edited) Stewart, That could be QG so Ill leave it for RNCVR. Regards Charles Edited 28 December , 2005 by joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 I would say its Qualified Gunner or Quarters Gunner - he is rated QG on 2 Oct 01 to 14 Dec 02. I expect he is on a ship at that time & has been qualified on board for that time frame or that commission - not being able to view the entire SR I cannot say this for sure tho. Prior to that he has been rated Trained Man up to 1 Oct '01. which would have brought him a raise in pay. A certain number of Ratings could be passed provisionally in Gunnery or Torpedo by the Warrant Gunner or Lieut(G) on board a ship prior to qualifying formally at HMS Excellent or Defiance or Vernon (one of the training establishments specific to Gunnery or Torpedo ashore) & this entitled them to a rate pay; approx 1d per diem. When he was formally trained as a Seaman Gunner the notation SG (with a date) will appear & this may show lower in the column. perhaps you could post more of the SR Stewart. & I need to see the "Badges" column in its entirety to 'translate' that also, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 28 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 December , 2005 Here goes, hope it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 (edited) Hi Stewart, Its hard to read - but what I can tell you is he was KIA when HMS Hawke was torpedoed in the North Sea 15 Oct 1914. send it to me at: rncvr@sympatico.ca in the 150Kb size & I'll see what I can do with it, Bryan Edited 28 December , 2005 by RNCVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 29 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2005 Hello, I will re scan the sheet and send it to you tomorrow. I went and deleted it last night after putting it on the forum. Thanks for the offer of having a closer look. There are only a couple of bits that I am not too sure of. the sub ratings being the main one. I have had a good look at his ships, and have collected a fair bit of info on them. It would be interesting to know where they were when he was on them, though. He is recorded in the Croydon Roll of Honour. Regards, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 1 January , 2006 Share Posted 1 January , 2006 Hi Stewart, Here are the Ships for Frederick David Purnell. St Vincent – Training Ship Portsmouth Pembroke – Base/Barracks & Flagship at Chatham Ramillies – Battleship of ‘92 Fearless – Torpedo Cruiser of ‘86 Widfire – Base at Sheerness Sans Pareil – Battleship of ‘87 Terror – Base at Bermuda Blenheim – 1st cl Cruiser of 90, & Destroyer Depot ship Home Fleet ’06-‘13 Hawke – 1st cl Cruiser – sunk 15 Oct ’14 by Sub U-9 in North Sea. As I mentioned in my email to you he would have qualified for ther QSA medal whilst on HMS Fearless. Bryan Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 1 January , 2006 Share Posted 1 January , 2006 & some detail on his Ratings & Badges etc : He entered as a Boy 2nd class on 1 Apl ’95, His time & 12 year Continuous service engagement commenced at 18 yrs of age on 23 Feb ’98 & he is rated Ordinary Seaman on that date. He gets rated AB – Able Seaman on 1 Sep ’98 & remains an AB for his entire career. In the “Badges” column: He receives his first GCB (Good Conduct badge) on time: 28 Feb ’01 ( awarded after completing 3 yrs adult service) However he next gets deprived of that GCB – D1: on 30 Apl ’01 & ends up in the 2nd class for Conduct 1 May ’01. Now this is not good for him as he would have been on a punishment routine until he was restored to the 1st class for Conduct on 1 Nov ’01. He would have committed some infraction that would have put him in the 2nd class but not serious enough to warrant cell time. His GCB is restored (R1) on 2 Feb(? -hard to read figure) ‘02 His 2nd GCB is awarded on 14 Aug ’06 (G1 over 2) – normally awarded for 8 yrs adult service. He then loses a GCB again on 5 Mar ’07 (D1 over 1) but this time does not end up in the 2nd class so presumably a minor infraction of some sort. & has his GCB restored on 5 Sep ’07. (R1 over 2) The award & deprivation & restoration of a ratings GCB’s affected his pay – each time he rec’d a GCB he rec’d a raise in pay (approx 1d per diem) if he lost a GCB he lost that pay, once it was restored his GCB pay was restored. So when he completed his CS engagement on 25 Feb ’10 he held two GCB’s. In the “Ratings” column: TM – he was rated Trained Man on 1 Sep ’98 & this would have brought him a raise in pay. QG – Qualified Gunner – on 2 Oct ’01 - he likely qualified whilst on board HMS Wildfire. Think likely only a limited qualification as to be rated a Seaman Gunner he would have had to take the qualifying course at HMS Excellent or one of the qualifying Port establishments. TM – rated Trained man again on 15 Dec ’02 (think ‘02 but hard to make out the figure again). Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 3 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2006 Hello, Just wanted to thank Bryan and everyone else for all there help, it has been great. Bryan, hope you got my e-mail O.K, thanking you for all your help. regards, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 5 January , 2006 Share Posted 5 January , 2006 yes Stewart I rec'd it & responded this am in answer to yr queestion - am somewhat behind as have been away off & on this holiday season, Bry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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