Marco Posted 16 December , 2005 Share Posted 16 December , 2005 Dear all, Can someone help this Dutchman finding out more about Pte J Hurst 49243? I have the CWGC info, his MIC, Soldiers Died and the following additional info: He went to France in 1915 and was wounded on 19/7/16 and sent to Sheffield Hospital. Returned to France and was wounded again on 7/1/17 and remained in hospital until 25/3/17. He took part in the 1st Battle of the Scarpe and killed that day on 9/4/17. He is buried at Wancourt British Cemetery. The questions are: -We know he transferred from the Royal Lancaster Reg. to the King’s Liverpool regiment. Is it possible to find out when? -Where to find out more about him? TIA! Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 16 December , 2005 Share Posted 16 December , 2005 Marco The Royal Lancaster's Museum holds a very good soldier database.The curator, Peter Donnelly, is one of life's good guys. Chuck in to the conversation that, being Dutch, you've heard about his charity cycle ride from Lancaster to Arnhem. In terms of Kings Liverpool, it may be worth dropping Forum member Promendade a message. What Joe doesnt know about them, isnt worth knowing. Good luck. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 17 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2005 Hello John, Many thanks for the suggestions, will try both. Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Promenade Posted 17 December , 2005 Share Posted 17 December , 2005 (edited) PRIVATE JOSEPH HURST 18TH THE KING'S (LIVERPOOL REGT) Marco, From you original email I would guess that you have already been in contact with the Kings Regt as the data you give is close to my entry in the database, data obtained partly from the above newspaper cutting. I would very much like to know your interest in Hurst - was he a relative or do you have his medals? I have checked whether he is listed on any of the known memorials that survive in Liverpool but could not find him. As a kid I must have walked past his street on many an occasion (a long time after his demise I may add). Finally I must thank John Hartley for his kind words on my knowledge of the Liverpool Regt which I must challenge - with most things in the Great War the more you learn and research the more you realise how little you know and this in turn enables you to marvel at, and appreciate, how much some real experts know (or something like that)! Promenade Marco and 'anoraks' only should read on . . . . King's Liverpool number 49243 falls in a block of 40 numbers (49215 to 49255) which were allocated exclusively to men who transferred from the King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regt). The first 25 numbers of the batch of 40 were allocated alphabetically which suggests prior knowledge of a draft of men arriving probably from the UK. Most have a King's Own No in the 2xxxx series and were probably initially assigned to the 1st Battalion of the King's Own when they enlisted in the UK - soon after arriving in France the men were transferred to the 18th Battalion Kings Liverpool Regt (2nd Liverpool Pals) probably at an Infantry Base Depot (where they were allocated their new numbers). the next two men in the block are then out of alpha sequence (including Hurst) and I can only suggest that they were not part of a draft as they were returning to the front - certainly Hurst served with 8 King's Own, having arrived in France on 27 September 1915 and was wounded on 19 July 1916 only to be wounded again in Jan 1917 (with the Liverpool Regt?). The last 13 men in the block were also allocated King's Liverpool numbers alphabetically which again suggests prior knowledge of the arrival of the batch of men. By the way 10 out of the 40 men who transferred were killed with the 18th Battalion Liverpool Regt - the earliest on 26 November 1916 the latest on 17 December 1917. A quick check of the known ages of the men in the block indicates that most were in their 30's and may have been batches of 'Derby' men who had been called up and sent to France to replace losses following the carnage of the Battle of the Somme. I have a note of 6 of the enlistment dates of the 40 men, dates which range from late 1915 to early 1916 with one man who enlisted 29/5/16. I also have some information on the dates of joining of men who transferred to the Kings Liverpool from the Cheshire Regt and were allocated Liverpool Regt numbers in the 49097-49195 series (ie just prior to the Kings Own block) - they joined the 17th Battalion Liverpool Regt (1st Liverpool Pals) in the second week of October 1916. I therefore suggest that men from the King's Own joined the Liverpool Regt in mid to late October 1916. Well you did ask! Edited 17 December , 2005 by Promenade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 18 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2005 Promanade, Finally I must thank John Hartley for his kind words on my knowledge of the Liverpool Regt which I must challenge - with most things in the Great War the more you learn and research the more you realise how little you know and this in turn enables you to marvel at, and appreciate, how much some real experts know (or something like that)! Perhaps without realizing you describe how I look at you and that makes YOU that real expert! Many thanks for your reply. I am in touch with a relative of Hurst and that relative made a comment about us not having anything on the 1st Battle of the Scarpe on our website. I wholeheartedly agreed with him and invited him to change that. He has now written a short piece on the attack of 21st Brigade and on his relative. The original information the relative had came from the newspaper article which he got through the Liverpool Mus. We are now trying to expand our knowledge on him and therewith the article. I will drop you an e-mail with links so you can see what we have so far. Joseph Hurst is on the Liverpool Town Hall Memorial, we have a picture of that. I’ll be in touch off-forum. Thanks again, Kind regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 18 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2005 Ps. Promenade, May I ask how you know he served in the 8th Bn. KORL? An important piece of information since this would mean he was either wounded while in support of the Gordon's near Longueval or during the relieve and move to Bund Trench near Carnoy. Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Promenade Posted 18 December , 2005 Share Posted 18 December , 2005 Ps. Promenade, May I ask how you know he served in the 8th Bn. KORL? An important piece of information since this would mean he was either wounded while in support of the Gordon's near Longueval or during the relieve and move to Bund Trench near Carnoy. Regards, Marco Marco, I believe that this information came from the Medal Rolls (nb not the MICs) at the National Archive. I will respond to your email separately. Promenade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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