mic confused

[Guest m.back]

Hello

I am researching grandfather PTE Charles John Lipscombe,prefered to be called John,11209 Hampshire Regiment.He has two index cards one being

C J lipscombe Hampshire Regiment PTE 11209

Hampshire Regiment PTE 4/62

The other

John Lipscombe Hampshire Regiment PTE 11209

" "

Has anyone come across the 4/62 type regiment number before?a theory being that it relates to his pre 1914 TF 4TH Battallion no 62.The family has memories of his invovlement in the 4th Battallion but not sure when,his medal rolls state he was in the 11th Pioneers and 2nd Battallion but no mention of the 4thTF.

Hope someone can help Martin.

[Sparky53]

Martin

If you can post an image of the MIC here I'm sure someone wil help you out.

The 4/62 may well be an index number to a Medal Roll

Jane

[Guest m.back]

Martin

If you can post an image of the MIC here I'm sure someone wil help you out.

The 4/62 may well be an index number to a Medal Roll

Jane

Cheers for reply Jane but the number does not relate to index number, looked at medal rolls at Kew.

Martin

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I would suggest your theory regarding his prewar TF service is correct if he served in that unit from 1908 ish as 62 would be an extremely low number{4 being Bn Number}it would suggest that he left the 4th Bn to serve Overseas with the 2nd Battalion,early on as many men did,in various regiments from the TF.

[Guest m.back]

I would suggest your theory regarding his prewar TF service is correct if he served in that unit from 1908 ish as 62 would be an extremely low number{4 being Bn Number}it would suggest that he left the 4th Bn to serve Overseas with the 2nd Battalion,early on as many men did,in various regiments from the TF.

Cheers Harry,he did enter the theatre of war on 19/12/15 with the 11th Battallion but its the reason why he did not go overseas with the TF i do not understand at the moment.

Martin

[butler]

I have seen some MICs for 6 and 7 Bns where there are two low service numbers with the Bn prefix before and after the six figure TF Bn service numbers. On some there is also the 7 figure army service number as a fourth number. This would suggest that when the TF battalions reformed into their original TF status after the war, that for a short period they began numbering again from 1 prior to the introduction of the 7 figure army service number.

In this case it would show that after the war he joined the 4th Bn. It is possible that he was later given a 7 figure service number, but if he was not awarded any further medals the MIC would not show it.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

its the reason why he did not go overseas with the TF i do not understand at the moment

There is probably nothing "sinister" in it many TF Men joined or were posted to Kitchener Battalions in 1914,rather than await the posting of their TF Battalion Overseas{as there was no immediate intention to send the Territorials Overseas,their raison d'etre being Home Defence initially}& were afraid they might miss the Action.

Edited 25 December , 2005 by HarryBettsMCDCM

[butler]

If as I say the 4/62 represents his service post war with the 4th Bn TF then he would not have gone overseas with them, but had gone overseas with the battalions he served in during the war

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

If as I say the 4/62 represents his service post war with the 4th Bn TF then he would not have gone overseas with them, but had gone overseas with the battalions he served in during the war

By 1916 he would have had a 6 Figure TF Number,without need for a prefix,as each Battalion had its own series of Numbers,this lasted until demobilisation[1919/23] then the standard Service Number was introduced in the 1920s,starting @ 1~294,000 for the RASC,each Regiment?corps being given its own range of Numbers;through to16,000,000[then 97,000,000~97100,000 for Non Combattant Corps],so there was no repitition,so the Number 4/62,would not have been used Post WW1,as 62 would have been an RASC Number by then.<::Army Numbers Post WW1::>

Not All Battalions having Prefix Numbers were Territorial Force,some of the Kitchener Battalions used Prefix Numbers to distinguish the Battalions[these would use 1~X000 Numbers]

Edited 26 December , 2005 by HarryBettsMCDCM

[Guest m.back]

Cheers everyone,

Its baffled me as he would have been only sixteen in December 1908 so probably,unless he lied about his age,could not have been a pre war tf.I have since typed in 4/ series Hants Regiment and come up with a lot of names in the MIC"s with ie 4/36,4/57,4/61.

Thanks for all your efforts, Martin

[butler]

The above reply does not fully explain what happened between the end of WW1 and the introduction of individual service numbers that were then kept by the soldier throughout his service, even if he changed regt or corps. It does not mention the use of numbers beginning with 0 which appears to be a renumbering of soldiers who decided to remain in the regular army after the war. I maintain that this example of 4/62 relates to the reforming of 4Bn as a Territorial unit and may have been an unofficial numbering of its members as they would have come from different battalions of the Hampshire Rgt and even different Rgt and Corps.

[Guest m.back]

Just a few image details from archives.

Eyles Geo R

Army Cyclist Corp 14480

Hampshire Regiment 4/74

Deane Goerge William

Hampshire Regiment 4214

Bedfordshire Regiment 205517

Hampshire Regiment 4/76

Allen William George

2ND Hampshire Regiment 4/32

2ND " " " 200006

None of the 4/ series are replicated

[butler]

The above reply says that none of the numbers are replicated and this is quite true. Reading MICs not every number is shown, and it is not an exact science. For 4Bn Hamps Rgt 200001-200100 only 69% are shown. For pre war TF numbers 1-100 only a hit rate of 7% is obtained but it must be remembered that these were men who had served in the Volunteer Battalions and were too old to serve in 1914, and if you accept that in the 4th Bn they again began numbering from 1 as a temporay measure until the standardised army numbers were introduced, then the lowest number shown on an MIC is 143. Thus the chances of a number being replicated are very slim. If you look at the other TF battallions of the Hamps Rgt the figures are similar. I have replied to this question because I have studied the Hamphire Rgt and believe I know the answer and so far no-one has been able to contadict what I have said. I may be wrong but it remains to be proved.

[Guest m.back]

The above reply says that none of the numbers are replicated and this is quite true. Reading MICs not every number is shown, and it is not an exact science. For 4Bn Hamps Rgt 200001-200100 only 69% are shown. For pre war TF numbers 1-100 only a hit rate of 7% is obtained but it must be remembered that these were men who had served in the Volunteer Battalions and were too old to serve in 1914, and if you accept that in the 4th Bn they again began numbering from 1 as a temporay measure until the standardised army numbers were introduced, then the lowest number shown on an MIC is 143. Thus the chances of a number being replicated are very slim. If you look at the other TF battallions of the Hamps Rgt the figures are similar. I have replied to this question because I have studied the Hamphire Rgt and believe I know the answer and so far no-one has been able to contadict what I have said. I may be wrong but it remains to be proved.

[/quote

Could my grandfather have signed up in 1914 with the 4th battallion TF before they changed to 1/4TH and had a temporary service no of 4/62 until he joined up and in 1915 went to France with the 11TH Pioneers.