Private Fred Kane, Gordon Highlanders, KIA 24/9/15

[barrieduncan]

Hi everyone,

I’ve just started researching some of the medals I have after reading a lot of the topics on here. A few years ago a friend of the family gave me her great-great-grand uncles WW1 medals. His name was Fred Kane and he was killed in 1915. I found him on the online medal rolls and it turns out he only enlisted a matter of weeks before he was killed. The strange thing is, his service number on his medals is S-4490, and yet, on his leather ID tag, it is given as S10010. Can anyone suggest why the numbers would be different? It also states on his medal card D of W, I am guessing this means Died of Wounds?

Another thing I'm wondering about is the strange little bag that came with the medals, death plaque, and ID tag. It looks like a miniature pillow slip and its very old and stained. There is a label sewn onto it but I cant quite discern what is stamped on it. Does anyone know if this was maybe some kind of toiletry bag issued to the troops? I'm just wondering if perhaps his personal effects were sent home in it, as I’m sure the lady who gave me them said there was also a war diary and some letters, which of course, disappeared

The same lady also gave me a memorial card to another relative, possibly another uncle, who died in 1918. His name was Private Alexander McNeil and he served in the 12th Royal Scots Fusiliers. The card is rimmed in black and has a small photograph of Private McNeil on the front. Inside it states that Private McNeil died from Gas Poisoning at the 55th General Hospital, France. Does anyone know where he would have been serving when he was gassed, or where the 55th General Hospital may have been? The strange thing is, when I searched him on the CWGC database, it says that he served as Allan (Alexander Allan?). I cant find his medal roll on the online database so any help with this would be appreciated.

Apologies for the long list of questions.

Regards

Barrie

[ian turner]

Barrie,

Pvte McNeil/Allan

You will find him on the NA MIC archives with a duplicated set of cards. Allen, and Allan, but same number. He is shown as 8th Bn on the MIC.

To investigate further you can do some 'self-help' by looking at the Long, Long Trail sister site, linked at the top of the page. It gives info on regiments/battalions/divisions and their whereabouts.

My guess is that he has used his mother's maiden name as his surname, from the brief info on the CWGC site.

Pvte Fred Kane

Yes, DoW usually means died of wounds. Normaly the MIC does not give the date of enlistment. How do you know that date? I wonder whether you might be confusing the date of entry into the theatre of war in which he qualified for his medals? Normally you need to see the service records to discover date of enlistment.

Regarding his numbering - it is quite often the case that servicemen were renumbered, either due to general renumbering, or when transferred between battalions in the same regiment or even transferred between regiments.

Ian

[barrieduncan]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the info on Pvte McNeil/Allan. Do you happen to know the number that is on both his cards? I only have his death card so I wasnt sure if the number on the CWGC certificate was the right one or not.

As far as Pvte F Kane is concerned, I think I made a schoolboy error and took the date on the card as the date he enlisted. Ah well, as someone has already said, its a lon learning curve

Thanks very much again Ian,

Barrie

[ian turner]

Barrie,

That's what the site is all about - I am just now learning to discern my elbow from the rear end!

You can see the National Archive medal card (or at least the reference) free of charge on the NA website. Pvte Allan's number was the same on both the cards, and same as the CWGC reference.

Re Pvte Kane, the info on CWGC was originally obtained from the MOD, and sometimes when a serviceman had been moved around/renumbered close to the time of his death quite often the changes had not filtered down through the system in time for the CWGC records. I assumed that his number at time of death was as per the CWGC records, but there again his dog-tag may have been more upto date! You will need to see his service records (if they still exist) to try and glean more info on his numbering.

Ian

[steve fuller]

Try here http://gordonhighlanders.carolynmorrisey.com/index.htm as carolyn has done a lotta work on th 5th Gordons. May turn up trumps mate?

His 2 service numbers:

The four digit one is a territorial (perhaps a regular army one but Id go with the terriers).

The 5 digit one is a "service army" number, relating to service in one of Kitcheners Btns.

So, on the surface, it seems he was in a terrier Btn (5th Gordons maybe - they were terriers), then transferred into a different Btn that was formed under the New Army. Or vice-versa of course, depending on the order they are shown on the Medal card

Also, the "S" in front refers (in the case of highland Regts) to him being a "wartime enlister". It means slightly different things for other units not from the Highlands but I dont imaine you need boring with that info!!

[barrieduncan]

Hi guys,

Thanks very much for all the help, much obliged to you.

I had a look at the gordon highlanders website, it was really good, though I didnt see any mention of Fred Kane, wrong battalion I guess.

Thanks again guys,

Barrie