John H E Shepley RE

[johnny_doyle]

Two of my Gt Grandfather's served in the RE during WWI.

Sapper Joseph Niland, 95796, was KIA 28/3/1917 and served in 179 Tunnelling Company, RE.

I know from the medal cards that Sapper John Henry Elvin Shepley served with the RE and his service number was 13441 but not the details of his unit. Is there any way to find out what unit he served in within the RE?

John H E Shepley died in 1943 in Macclesfield, Cheshire. His death cert indicates that he died of blood poisoning as a result of wounds received in November 1918. Apparently he had to regularly go into hospital after demob.

John

[Peter Beckett]

Hi John,

First of all a disclaimer. I am not an expert on the RE

My observations are based on my own experiences with my Grandfather (see my signature)

You should read up the section on RE in The Long Long Trail http://www.1914-1918.net/

As Royal Engineers were in companies (Field, etc), you need to find some evidence which will point to a possible company. Any documention, letters, etc that might have some clue ie 95th FC or if he was wounded, then work back to where to see if you can link to a Division. This is a long shot and you may find nothing. Even a family story handed down needs to be investigated which may include battles.

If you do find something, then a trip to the NAA (PRO) at Kew may be required to search through War Diaries, (company if you get that close, divisional, related infantry war diaries, etc)

Then, if you are really lucky you might find a name relating to deaths, wounding, etc but don't bank on it.

Also if you have any photos they may help as well.

I hope you find out more

Peter

[Stebie9173]

Tracing the Royal Engineers is very difficult (my great-grandfather is still "served somewhere in France").

Was John discharged early from the army?

Is there a "SWB List" reference on his Medal Index Card?

13441 is a number that was in use before the War, so he was presumably in the army before the war and still serving in 1914 or on Reserve. He may appear on a nominal roll somewhere, but which one is the question!

You may be able to narrow his service down to a few units if he went overseas in August 1914. What does his MIC say regarding dates?

I'm sure you've downloaded it already but it is here if you haven't:

Medal card of Shepley, John H E

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Engineers 13441 Sapper

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=7

Steve.

[johnny_doyle]

Not quite sure what you mean by SWB List and unfortunately sis Medal Card doesn't give any data re service anywhere.

I've done a simple web page with links to his Medal Card and Death Cert at :

John Henry Elvin Shepley 1882 to 1943

John

[Stebie9173]

What you have there is the old Medal Index Card Corner Trick.

Quite a number of cards have that nasty black mark across the corner.

I think that mark is hiding another number. A 3 or a 4 or a 7 perhaps. 134414 has not been taken by another soldier on the MICs.

The error has gone onto the Index too. That puts a different light on things. He probably therefore enlisted (whether a volunteer or a conscript) in the first half of 1916.

That would of course explain why a man withan "early" number doesn't have a 1914 or 1914-15 Star....

You would need to check back to the medal rolls at the NA at Kew to confirm his correct number...

I have a list of some of the later numbers matched to units at home. I can't guarantee that it will tell us anything, but I will have a look for you tonight. Cross fingers...

Steve.

[johnny_doyle]

What you have there is the old Medal Index Card Corner Trick.

Quite a number of cards have that nasty black mark across the corner.

I think that mark is hiding another number. A 3 or a 4 or a 7 perhaps. 134414 has not been taken by another soldier on the MICs.

The error has gone onto the Index too. That puts a different light on things. He probably therefore enlisted (whether a volunteer or a conscript) in the first half of 1916.

That would of course explain why a man withan "early" number doesn't have a 1914 or 1914-15 Star....

You would need to check back to the medal rolls at the NA at Kew to confirm his correct number...

I have a list of some of the later numbers matched to units at home. I can't guarantee that it will tell us anything, but I will have a look for you tonight. Cross fingers...

Steve.

thanks Steve. Appreciate the help.

John

[John_Hartley]

John

There's a man called S Shepley recorded on three war memorials in Macclesfield. Could he be a relation? On one of them, the name is Samuel Shepley.

He might also be the Samuel Shepley recorded on the Stockport Memorial (that chap definately served with 1/Cheshire and died as a prisoner of war)

John

[Terry_Reeves]

With some exceptions, it is not possible to trace a man's RE unit by his regimental number. Unfortunately this is not one of the exceptions. Men with numbers in close proximity to his served variously in 17 Field Company, "F"Cable Section and 31 Army Troops Company, no doubt there were other units as well.

The only way to find out is his service record, if it still exists but even then the record may not be complete. There is a record at the National Archive for a John Shepley in PIN 71/5225 which are the pensions records. It might be worth checking both sources.

Terry Reeves

Edited 6 December , 2005 by Terry_Reeves

[Stebie9173]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Terry.

There is a definite pattern between 128000 and 132000, and 137000 to 139000 on my list at least but the middle bit is a bit of everyhting as Terry says.

Provided that his is the 134414 (or similar) number.

Steve.

[johnny_doyle]

John

There's a man called S Shepley recorded on three war memorials in Macclesfield. Could he be a relation? On one of them, the name is Samuel Shepley.

He might also be the Samuel Shepley recorded on the Stockport Memorial (that chap definately served with 1/Cheshire and died as a prisoner of war)

John

John

thnaks for looking at this.

The Shepley's on the memorial in Macclesfield are distantly related to my John Shepley but they are distinct. John Shepley's immediate family left Macclesfield 2 generations beforehand to move down to Wheelock. His daughter, my grandmother, moved back there in the 1930's...... and eventually I was born there - in Hurdsfield. His daughter married Leonard Clarke whose father, Joseph Clarke, is commorated on the Macclesfield Memorial. Joe Clarke was a Bantam, contrasting dramaticaly with the Shepley's who were very tall.

Leonard Clarke went on to serve with the East Lancs Regt during WW2 (and spent most of his time on the Isle of Man) guarding Italian POWs.

John

[John_Hartley]

John

Another Forum member, Mercian Volunteer (Steve), has an interest in the Macc memorial and may have info on Joseph Clarke, if you're interested. Worth dropping him a Personal Message?

John

[johnny_doyle]

John

Another Forum member, Mercian Volunteer (Steve), has an interest in the Macc memorial and may have info on Joseph Clarke, if you're interested. Worth dropping him a Personal Message?

John

John

thanks very much for the suggestion. I've dropped Steve a message and also enquired about the Shepley's on the Macc Memorial too.

John

[johnny_doyle]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Terry.

There is a definite pattern between 128000 and 132000, and 137000 to 139000 on my list at least but the middle bit is a bit of everyhting as Terry says.

Provided that his is the 134414 (or similar) number.

Steve.

Steve,

I went through some old notes and have an entry that the number is 134412 with a flag that the last digit was hard to read. I suspect that I'm going to have to try and approach the MOD and see if his service record is available.

John

[johnny_doyle]

With some exceptions, it is not possible to trace a man's RE unit by his regimental number. Unfortunately this is not one of the exceptions. Men with numbers in close proximity to his served variously in 17 Field Company, "F"Cable Section and 31 Army Troops Company, no doubt there were other units as well.

The only way to find out is his service record, if it still exists but even then the record may not be complete. There is a record at the National Archive for a John Shepley in PIN 71/5225 which are the pensions records. It might be worth checking both sources.

Terry Reeves

Terry

thanks for the info.

I've already got the material re PIN 71/5225 using the NA's Scan on Demand service. I thought it might be my John Shepley given that he was supposed to have been in and out of hospital regularly and that there should be some sort of pension/medical documentation. Unfortunately, the doc is for another John Shepley who served with the RFA and who came from Yorkshire.

I retain all Shepley records that I get hold of and pass these on to other Shepley researchers so at some point this record will end up with the right person...... hopefully.

John

[John_Hartley]

I retain all Shepley records that I get hold of and pass these on to other Shepley researchers so at some point this record will end up with the right person...... hopefully.

John

In that case, the following is my write-up on the Samuel Shepley on the Stockport memorial - in due course, it will be uploaded to the Council's website as part of the Borough's "virtual war memorial" - in the meantime, feel free to share the info with other researchers as you think suitable:-

NAME: Samuel Shepley

RANK: Private

NUMBER: 10568

UNIT: 1st Battalion, Cheshire Regiment

DATE OF DEATH: 9 May 1915

CEMETERY OR MEMORIAL: Cologne Southern Cemetery, Germany

AGE: 33 (based on age at 1901 census)

OTHER INFORMATION:

The 1901 Census confirms that Samuel’s parents were Peter, aged 56 and working as a mechanic’s labourer at a mill and Mary, aged 50. It suggests he had an older brother, Ralph, then aged 32 and working as a cotton spinner. Samuel was also working as a mechanic’s labourer, but later, went to work as a labourer for the London & North Western Railway Company at Heaton Norris station. He is commemorated on the LNWR’s Roll of Honour.

Samuel had been a member of the Cheshire Volunteer Force in the early years of the 20th century, and he remained a member when it become the Territorial Force in 1909. However, he must have left the Territorials some time before the war, as he was not mobilised with the other members of the 6th Cheshires. His service number indicates that he enlisted in August 1914, within days of war being declared on the 4th. After training, he will have joined the 1st Battalion around January 1915

Samuel was taken prisoner not long before he died, but it not known when. On the day he died, he sent his mother a postcard saying that he had been treated well and was recovering from a wound. He cannot have realised how ill he was.

[johnny_doyle]

John

In that case, the following is my write-up on the Samuel Shepley on the Stockport memorial - in due course, it will be uploaded to the Council's website as part of the Borough's "virtual war memorial" - in the meantime, feel free to share the info with other researchers as you think suitable:-

NAME: Samuel Shepley

RANK: Private

NUMBER: 10568

UNIT: 1st Battalion, Cheshire Regiment

DATE OF DEATH: 9 May 1915

CEMETERY OR MEMORIAL: Cologne Southern Cemetery, Germany

AGE: 33 (based on age at 1901 census)

OTHER INFORMATION:

The 1901 Census confirms that Samuel’s parents were Peter, aged 56 and working as a mechanic’s labourer at a mill and Mary, aged 50. It suggests he had an older brother, Ralph, then aged 32 and working as a cotton spinner. Samuel was also working as a mechanic’s labourer, but later, went to work as a labourer for the London & North Western Railway Company at Heaton Norris station. He is commemorated on the LNWR’s Roll of Honour.

Samuel had been a member of the Cheshire Volunteer Force in the early years of the 20th century, and he remained a member when it become the Territorial Force in 1909. However, he must have left the Territorials some time before the war, as he was not mobilised with the other members of the 6th Cheshires. His service number indicates that he enlisted in August 1914, within days of war being declared on the 4th. After training, he will have joined the 1st Battalion around January 1915

Samuel was taken prisoner not long before he died, but it not known when. On the day he died, he sent his mother a postcard saying that he had been treated well and was recovering from a wound. He cannot have realised how ill he was.

John

thanks very much for this information. Much appreciated.

John