Dragon Posted 1 December , 2005 Share Posted 1 December , 2005 (edited) I wondered whether anyone has any information about the crest which is on the facade of the Armoury, Ashton-under-Lyne? The building is a drill hall but the crest appears to be either unfinished, or deliberately left blank, or has had its detail erased. I asked John Hartley, who's a Manchesters expert as well an an habitué of Ashton,and he says that it's been like that as long as he remembers. I would welcome any insights into why it is as it is. Thanks. Gwyn Edited 1 December , 2005 by Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 1 December , 2005 Share Posted 1 December , 2005 (edited) Looking at the oak leaves, i would guess you should be looking at the Lancashire Rifle Volunteers (poss 6th LRV/1st Manchester) (has Mr Hartley moved to Ashton? ) Edited 1 December , 2005 by harribobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 1 December , 2005 Share Posted 1 December , 2005 (has Mr Hartley moved to Ashton? ) Worked in the town centre for over 7 years, Chris. It was popping into the Mancs Museum on wet lunchtimes wot got me interested in this lark J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 1 December , 2005 Share Posted 1 December , 2005 Worked in the town centre for over 7 years, Chris. It was popping into the Mancs Museum on wet lunchtimes wot got me interested in this lark J ah! i thought you'd been expelled! i hear we have a new curator, not met him yet though btw did you see my post on charles entwistle? (pals id thread in soldiers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 1 December , 2005 Share Posted 1 December , 2005 Hi Mr Hartley It is only fare that you get wet doing this lark. But you are an Expert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 1 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2005 (edited) Thanks, Chris. Do you have any idea why the middle part is rough and blank? Yes, I've been given name of the new curator, but haven't got round to contacting him about various drill-hall-related things. That Mr Hartley, now...... he's only been back from London five minutes and he's already logged into the Forum. I call that sad, if not tragic. Gwyn Edited 1 December , 2005 by Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 1 December , 2005 Share Posted 1 December , 2005 Thanks, Chris. Do you have any idea why the middle part is rough and blank? Yes, I've been given name of the new curator, but haven't got round to contacting him about various drill-hall-related things. That Mr Hartley, now...... he's only been back from London five minutes and he's already logged into the Forum. I call that sad, if not tragic. Gwyn not really Gwyn, the shape doesn't match anything I have (looks more like they'd roughened the surface for mounting something on top of it), but i'll have a look at my reference stuff and see if i can come up with an answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 1 December , 2005 Share Posted 1 December , 2005 is it possible that it may have had a metal plaque attatched to it,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 1 December , 2005 Share Posted 1 December , 2005 Do you have any idea why the middle part is rough and blank? That Mr Hartley, now...... he's only been back from London five minutes and he's already logged into the Forum. I call that sad, if not tragic. Sad? Tragic? I wouldn't necessarily disagree. Four nights "dahn sarf" and three days at Kew is enough for any Northener. Innit. I'm still sticking to my original idea (on the grounds that the simplest ideas are often the best) that it was intended to have a coat of arms carved on it, but they never got round to it. Might it be that, as Chris suggests, it was originally going to be the Rifle Volunteers arms and then the building started to be used by the Mancs, so the job had to be stopped halfway through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 1 December , 2005 Share Posted 1 December , 2005 btw did you see my post on charles entwistle? (pals id thread in soldiers) Yep - and have commented. "Honest John" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 1 December , 2005 Share Posted 1 December , 2005 i am told that the original badge has been erased probably/possibly the 7th Lancs RV ( not the 6th..but i was only one batt out! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 1 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2005 Ah! But why? Thanks for finding this out, Chris. Who told you? Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Fisher Posted 2 December , 2005 Share Posted 2 December , 2005 It seems to me that whatever was on the crest has been deliberately removed. Perhaps a change of unit, from Volunteer to Territorial in 1908? Perhaps the major benefactor of the armoury in a fit of pique as his building is taken over by the Ministry of Defence (or War Office)? There's a tale worth telling here... Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 2 December , 2005 Share Posted 2 December , 2005 Ah! But why? more than likely it was when the 7th Lancs Rifle Volunteers became the 3rd Volunteer battalion of the Manchester Regiment, the info is from a friend of mine, closely connected to the museum and a superb historian of the regiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 2 December , 2005 Share Posted 2 December , 2005 It seems to me that whatever was on the crest has been deliberately removed. Perhaps a change of unit, from Volunteer to Territorial in 1908? Hi Graeme i think the earlier change ( LRVC to VB) makes more sense, the VBs and the Territorials all used the manchester coat of arms badge ( excepting the 4th VB and 7th Terriers) i wonder if a replacement was fitted but was damaged (or fell off) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 3 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 3 December , 2005 (edited) Thank you for your thoughts. An educated guess is better than no idea at all. Another question: Outside the Armoury there is a plaque, which says that the council: Do they? My friend who lives in Ashton says she doesn't know, but has never seen any signs of this actually happening. Just curious.... Gwyn Edited 3 December , 2005 by Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 3 December , 2005 Share Posted 3 December , 2005 Gwyn I'm not aware that they do. I'm basing that on reading the local newspaper on a weekly basis and don't remember seeing any piccies (that said, I was looking to see if any of our punters had been mentioned). Is the plaque dated? It possibly relates to a local authority predating the creation of Tameside in 1974. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Maier Posted 3 December , 2005 Share Posted 3 December , 2005 According to this reference – which has broken graphics links – The Armoury “...was built in 1886 as the home of the predecessor Volunteer Battalion of the 9th Battalion the Manchester Regiment...”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 3 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 3 December , 2005 Is the plaque dated? July 1950, John. (Before even your time. ) Sorry, it would have been more helpful to have shown the whole plaque, so I'll do this later, with a picture of the whole building. Thanks, Clive, for the link, which confirms dating information gleaned elsewhere. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 3 December , 2005 Share Posted 3 December , 2005 July 1950, John. (Before even your time. ) But only just. I was, at the time, a very large lump stuck out in front of my mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 3 December , 2005 Share Posted 3 December , 2005 1950 - it will have been Ashton Borough Council then (which was a predecessor authority to Tameside). The only significant event for that year listed on the Council's website is the opening of the Manchester - Ashton trolley bus service on 1 March. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 3 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 3 December , 2005 I was, at the time, a very large lump stuck out in front of my mother. Aww, bless..... Anyway, here is the whole text: Picture of the facade in Graeme's drill hall thread here, post 451. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 4 December , 2005 Share Posted 4 December , 2005 Outside the Armoury there is a plaque, which says that the council: Do they? My friend who lives in Ashton says she doesn't know, but has never seen any signs of this actually happening. Just curious.... the 5th battalion Manchester regiment doesn't exist anymore, being a victim of the regimental amalgamations a quick check on the Army site says there's a Medical Terrier unit in Ashton, the closest unit with a connection would be the Kings Cheshires at Ardwick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 4 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 4 December , 2005 Thanks, Chris. So no-one marches around Ashton with bayonets fixed, drums beating and flags flying any more. (Sorry - unclear photo. It says 9th.) Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 4 December , 2005 Share Posted 4 December , 2005 Thanks, Chris. So no-one marches around Ashton with bayonets fixed, drums beating and flags flying any more. (Sorry - unclear photo. It says 9th.) Gwyn yes my mother in law,but they wont lock her up, bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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