Adrian Roberts Posted 23 November , 2005 Share Posted 23 November , 2005 Accounts in the press about 109 year-old Henry Allingham state the he was at Jutland in the destroyer Kingfisher, which was the first to be converted to carry a seaplane. However, I cannot find a mention of Kingfisher in the Jutland order of battle, as listed at: http://www.gwpda.org/naval/jutob.htm Also, I cannot find such a vessel at www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk The only Kingfisher listed there was a sloop launched in 1879, (a sister to Gannet now at Chatham), which while not scrapped until 1919 was surely not at Jutland. And being a full-rigged ship, she would hardly have been suitable for carrying aircraft! Can anyone throw any light on this? I don't have a copy of Conways or Janes; is such a ship in there? I do have Brown's "Grand Fleet" but no mention there either. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 23 November , 2005 Share Posted 23 November , 2005 Just possible it was the Kempenfelt, leader of the the 11th Destroyer Flotilla, but I don't recall having heard of it being converted to carry an aircraft. If it was converted it was after Jutland. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted 23 November , 2005 Share Posted 23 November , 2005 One press report that I read described HMS Kingfisher as a trawler, which appears to be correct. Ships of the Royal Navy by J. J. Colledge lists a trawler caslled Kingfisher with the date 1915. Before the Aircraft Carrier by R. D. Layman briefly mentions this vessel, a 322 ton trawler that along with the 302 ton Cantarice was 'equipped to carry Schnieders for anti-airship in the North Sea.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 23 November , 2005 Share Posted 23 November , 2005 Adrian, From RAF Personnel and Training. In May 1916, he was ordered at short notice to join the armed trawler HMT Kingfisher, carrying a Sopwith Schneider seaplane. The Kingfisher was at sea during the Battle of Jutland, shadowing the British Battle Fleet. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wrighty Posted 23 November , 2005 Share Posted 23 November , 2005 There was a steamship, or possibly paddle steamer, built by George Brown at Greenock in 1913, and owned by the General Steam Navigation Co. Unfortunately i couldnt find any other details on her on their site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 24 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2005 Thanks everyone - the theory that she was the trawler of this name seems to be adequately documented. Whether the press erroneously described her as a destroyer or whether this was my own memory playing tricks I'm not sure. A Trawler called Kingfisher isn't mentioned in the order of battle, whereas the Seaplane Carrier Engadine is, but maybe they just didn't list all support ships. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 24 November , 2005 Share Posted 24 November , 2005 Adrian, It may be hard to visualise but Trawlers did carry seaplanes, they where used for anti submarine and anti air ship patrols. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 24 November , 2005 Share Posted 24 November , 2005 They pulled lighters and also were used for sea air rescue too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 24 November , 2005 Share Posted 24 November , 2005 And in the mans own words, http://www.raf.mod.uk/ptc/stomerln18.html Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 25 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2005 Joseph Thanks for this link. Very comprehensive, (and confirms about the trawlers) but it leaves out one or two bits I recall from elsewhere. He flew occassionally as an observer/gunner in Short 184 seaplanes while at Great Yarmouth, but saw no action. While at St Omer, he went to the front to recover downed aircraft, often under fire, and on one occassion found himself in a shell-hole with "blood and bits of body". So while he never fired a shot in anger (unless anyone knows different), I would suggest that he counts as a combat veteran who experienced the worst of war. Also he is probably the last surviving person to have ridden a motorcycle before WW1 Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 25 November , 2005 Share Posted 25 November , 2005 Adrian, Im sure Henry would be pleased that people like yourself are still remembering him and his pals. I like the snippet about the motorbike what a different angle, probably make a good paragraph in a book. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 July , 2019 Share Posted 20 July , 2019 I have found a official form, S1306 Protection and Identity Certificate, that states my grandfather served on HMS Kingfisher. the form is dated 15th April 1919. His name was Arthur Dolman. I dont know anymore sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 20 July , 2019 Share Posted 20 July , 2019 15 minutes ago, Mike A Smith said: His name was Arthur Dolman. I dont know anymore sadly. He served as Arthur William DOLMAN. He served in the hired trawler KINGFISHER as a deck hand Royal Naval Reserve (11866.DA). You can download his RNR record from TNA using this link:- https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8519367 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 21 July , 2019 Share Posted 21 July , 2019 Thank you for the information and the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 11 April , 2020 Share Posted 11 April , 2020 Our family archives has just thrown up a cetificate from King George V issued to the familyies of those who lost their lives in the 1st World War. It commemorates my uncle John Freegrove-Winzer (of Polish ectraction and married to my father's sister). He died in the flu epidemic of 1918 and it states "2nd hand John Freegrove Winzer H M S Kingfisher" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 Here is his RNR record - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8527376 He served at the Yarmouth Base from 3 March 1918 in the RNR ratings of Deck Hand, Leading Deck hand, and Second Hand successively. In his time KINGFISHER became the nominal ship for the Yarmouth Base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 15 February , 2023 Share Posted 15 February , 2023 Quote KINGFISHER (ex-ALCYON), Admiralty trawler, Adty No 1498. Built 1915, 304grt, purchased 4.15. Armament: 1x 6pdr, 1x 7.5in BL Howitzer, hydrophone. Nominal parent ship, carrying the muster books of other small craft, exchanged name and number with hired drifter ADELE (also a parent ship), renamed ADELE 6.18, Adty No 1499. Sold 1919 as ALCYON.ADELE, hired drifter, Adty No 1499. Built 1915, 99grt, Yarmouth-registered YH.473. Armament: 1x 6pdr AA. In service 3.15-1919 as net vessel. Nominal parent ship, carrying the muster books of other small craft, exchanged name and number with, Admiralty trawler KINGFISHER (also a parent ship), renamed KINGFISHER 6.18, Adty No 1498. Served as ADELE in WW2. Quote In May 1916, he was ordered at short notice to join the armed trawler HMT Kingfisher, carrying a Sopwith Schneider seaplane. The Kingfisher was at sea during the Battle of Jutland, shadowing the British Battle Fleet. They subsequently followed the High Seas Fleet taking care to avoid the mines laid by the retreating battleships. ...Although the trawler was not directly involved in the action, Henry can properly claim to be the last survivor of that crucial battle [in the opinion stated on 18 November 2004 by RAF Personnel and Training Command]. It seems peculiar they were ordered to follow the fleet, and not to join it. The fleet presumably had adequate aerial support with kite balloons and the Engadine? Presumably there are no other accounts as to HM Trawler Kingfisher's activities in 1916 that have survived? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 15 February , 2023 Share Posted 15 February , 2023 (edited) Kingfisher’s normal operational duties during the period May 1915- June 1916 was to transport a Great Yarmouth based Sopwith Baby seaplane 50/60 miles out into the North Sea out to a position in vicinity of Haaks light vessel. From there the aircraft would take off and patrol for an hour or so before dusk, in the hope of intercepting a German airship (they generally approached the English coast just as it was getting dark). There are several small discrepancies and factual inaccuracies with Henry Allingham’s account, and although Kingfisher was indeed out in the North Sea at the time that the Battle of Jutland was taking place (with Allingham temporarily put aboard at very short notice, as a RNAS mechanic, in addition to Kingfisher’s regular crew). I rather suspect that he was probably a bit confused about what exactly was going on and what the mission was - and only later put two and two together to make five! In point of fact, HMT Kingfisher never came under the operational command of the Grand Fleet, and there is no evidence that she was ordered to proceed out into the North Sea for the express purpose of providing air cover for the Royal Navy’s battleships (in any case, a trawler just wouldn’t have been fast enough to keep up). Ref. ‘The Story of a North Sea Air Station’, C.F. Snowden Gamble. MB Edited 15 February , 2023 by KizmeRD Correction, regarding Haaks L/V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 15 February , 2023 Share Posted 15 February , 2023 Interesting, thanks for a bit more context about HM Trawler Kingfisher's duties. In the mean time I also came across the following thread on here, likewise of interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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