V.A.D. "Other ranks"

[Michael Pegum]

I know that some V.A.D. casualties are listed in "Officers Died in the Great War". Are there any V.A.D. casualties in "Soldiers Died in the Great War"?

If so, is Iza (Eliza, Elizabeth) Mahony there?

Michael

[Jim Strawbridge]

I know that some V.A.D. casualties are listed in "Officers Died in the Great War". Are there any V.A.D. casualties in "Soldiers Died in the Great War"?

If so, is Iza (Eliza, Elizabeth) Mahony there?

Michael

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Before anyone asks me to give my "three pennyworth" this is one that Michael has previously pointed out to me as on a memorial in Ireland. Her name was previously unknown to me as it does not appear on the York Minster panels. The memorial may just commemorate those that served from the area rather than those that died. I suppose the only way to find this out is to look at the other names on the memorial and see if they were all casualties. But for the moment Iza Mahony is an enigma and any help would be appreciated. Perhaps a visit to the NA by someone to check out her papers would reveal all.

[Michael Pegum]

... The memorial may just commemorate those that served from the area rather than those that died.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In fact, all those on this memorial did die.

Michael

[mcmanusruth]

I've been curious about Iza Mahony for some time, as she's the only woman on that particular memorial. I wrote to the Red Cross in London and just received a reply yesterday, saying that she was a VAD nurse who had served in the Meath Hospital in 1914-15 for 3 months, then in Military Hospital Malta from 2/9/15 to 11/4/16 and in Military Hospital France 1/7/16 to 2/2/17. Her date of discharge was 2/2/17.

As I'm a novice and only starting to learn a little from the forum, perhaps some of you out there might be able to help with interpreting some of this:

-her dates of enrolment and discharge are also the dates she started in Malta and finished in France. Is this just some sort of shorthand?-presumably she'd have enrolled in Ireland and been sent out to wherever after a short period.

-she spent roughly 7 months in each of the two military hospitals mentioned. Would this have been a usual period of time to spend before getting leave etc, or is this unusual? Also the break in service between Malta and France, would that have been leave or ...?

-her detachment is given as Co.Dublin/12 - does anyone know any more about this? Were there many detachments in Ireland? Would all of the people in a particular detachment have been sent to work overseas together as a unit? (As you can see, I don't yet know much about the organisational side of things).

Finally, if I were to write again to the Red Cross do you think that it would be possible to get further details on her service, such as which particular hospitals she worked in, or do they just not give out that sort of information? (I'd be happy to make an appropriate donation of course).

Sorry for all the questions! I'm pursuing Iza's death records, I think that her death may have been registered in Dublin in 1919, so will post again if I find out more.

[welshdoc]

As she apparently served in France she should have been awarded some medals and have a medal index card , looking at the national archives there are no obvious matches for Isa or Iza only an Elizabeth, is IZA a pet name?

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=2

[mcmanusruth]

As she apparently served in France she should have been awarded some medals and have a medal index card , looking at the national archives there are no obvious matches for Isa or Iza only an Elizabeth, is IZA a pet name?

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=2

I think that her given name was Elizabeth, but not positive. It would definitely be worth a look in Kew next time I'm in the UK.

[mcmanusruth]

Sorry Welshdoc, didn't realise I'd be able to order the record online. Thanks for the link - Wow! It's her alright - the card doesn't have much info but it looks as though she was awarded 'Victory' and 'British', the writing is a bit tricky but it looks like there's a roll number VAD/101 and then some letters that I'm not sure of and page number 775.

There's a note on the card saying the following: signed 'Iza' Mahony, died 15/4/19.

[Jim Strawbridge]

Her date of discharge was 2/2/17. Her date of death was 15/4/19. This is probably why her name is not recorded on the York Minster panels. She was a civilian at the time of her death. So unless her death was through injury or disease related to her war time service then her designation as a war casualty would be wrong. However, war memorials were organised by local committees and the names that went on them were generally gathered from local knowledge. The committee felt that her name should be on it and who are we to argue at this late stage?

[Jim Strawbridge]

DublinVAD

You have found out that she was a member of Co.Dublin/12 VAD unit. If I recall correctly these numbers designate an area from which recruits to the VAD were from. So someone on this Forum may be able to tell you exactly which part of Dublin this relates to. Unless she had moved away from home my guess is that Iza Mahoney came from this part of Dublin and that she and her family can be found in a 1901 census if such exists. I am guessing that you are in Dublin and a visit to your local library or Family Research Centre may help reveal her year of birth, home address, parent's names, ages and occupations and siblings. Well done, by the way. on your tenacity to find out more about her.

[Sue Light]

... she was a VAD nurse who had served in the Meath Hospital in 1914-15 for 3 months, then in Military Hospital Malta from 2/9/15 to 11/4/16 and in Military Hospital France 1/7/16 to 2/2/17. Her date of discharge was 2/2/17.

-her dates of enrolment and discharge are also the dates she started in Malta and finished in France. Is this just some sort of shorthand?-presumably she'd have enrolled in Ireland and been sent out to wherever after a short period.

-she spent roughly 7 months in each of the two military hospitals mentioned. Would this have been a usual period of time to spend before getting leave etc, or is this unusual? Also the break in service between Malta and France, would that have been leave or ...?

-her detachment is given as Co.Dublin/12 - does anyone know any more about this? Were there many detachments in Ireland? Would all of the people in a particular detachment have been sent to work overseas together as a unit? (As you can see, I don't yet know much about the organisational side of things).

Finally, if I were to write again to the Red Cross do you think that it would be possible to get further details on her service, such as which particular hospitals she worked in, or do they just not give out that sort of information?

Just a few thoughts on the points above.

If she had no experience before the war, that first three months at Meath Hospital would have been a training period in the various aspects of work she would be expected to do. Quite a small proportion of VADs then went on to work in military hospitals under the control of the War Office - most continued to work in Red Cross and Auxiliary units - and the dates of service appear to be the dates of her contract with the WO to work in military hospitals.

The period of 7 months is common. On first going abroad she would have worked one month's probationary period, and at the end of that time she could either leave, be sent home as unsuitable, or else sign a binding contract for six months, making 7 months in total.

I can only guess at the 3 month gap, but from experience of other VADs, I think it likely that at the end of her first contract in Malta, she either resigned, or else asked for a long leave which was turned down. Some women found that their two week leave every six months was not enough, and requested longer periods of unpaid leave. This was not usually granted, except on grounds of illness or something exceptional, and the women were advised to resign, and then sign on again when free. So after a break, she decided to sign on again - if she had previously proved reliable and suitable there would have been no problem with this, and it would then explain the next seven months - one month on probation and six months' contract.

Before the war the detachments were quite small, but during wartime they would have recruited locally, but been very different in make-up than pre-war - much bigger - a sort of umbrella organisation to recruit and train, with women working in different local hospitals. Women would apply as individuals to go abroad, and although several may go at any one time from the same locality, they did not go as one single detachment. By the middle of 1916 they were arriving in large numbers in France, normally in groups of 25 often several times a week - these groups would be made up of women from all parts of the UK.

I would think that the information you've received from the BRCS is all they have. If they have details of the units VADs served with, they are normally included on the service sheet, but often there is no mention of actual units - it's much more likely to be present on the records of trained nurses.

On the question of the number of detachments - I've no idea in Ireland, but have just come across a woman who died who was part of Dublin/32, and as women's detachments always had even numbers, that makes 16 at least with the Dublin prefix [unless the Irish have a strange numbering system

Regards ------ Sue

[Bairbre]

The BRC record for the author and poet Winifred M. Letts gives her detachment as Co. Dublin Special. I do not know whether the word 'Special' should precede 'Nurse' which is given on the following line as her Rank. Dates of enrolment 1.9.15 - 30.6.16.

The record for her sister, Mary F. S. Letts gives her detachment as Leinster, Munster and Connaught. Enrolment: 11. June. 1915 Still serving at time of record March 1919.

Neither of these women served abroad, as far as I know.

[Sue Light]

I had a look at the medal roll yesterday [WO329/2319], and her dates of service are given as:

Malta 2/9/15 - 11/4/16

France (1a) 1/7/16 - 1/1/17

'Signs "Iza" Mahony.'

So the same except for the fact that her last month was probably spent back in England, after the end of her War Office contract.

But what did catch my eye was the entry immediately below was for a woman of the same surname. The roll is in rough alphabetical order, so perhaps just a coincidence, but the fact they both had comments that they signed under slightly different forenames to the official version, ?suggests that they could be sisters.

MAHONY, Mary Baptist

1(a) 4/5/17 - 4/5/18

'Signs "Moira" Mahony.'

Sue

[mcmanusruth]

Hi Sue, Thanks for looking up the rolls. How interesting! I’ve had a look at the 1901 Census and think I have Iza’s family. Her father James was a corn merchant, her mother’s name was Mary. They seem to have been a well off Catholic family, lived on Raglan Road which was in a well-heeled suburb, and had a governess and four other female servants. There are 5 children listed, including Elizabeth who was 12 at the time, Annie, Mary who was 6, Austin and James. So, it seems highly possible that Mary/Moira is her sister.

Is the 1a in the listing for France anything to do with the location that they were stationed?

Ruth

[Sue Light]

Is the 1a in the listing for France anything to do with the location that they were stationed?

Ruth

Unfortunately not. 1a refers to the theatre of service being France/Belgium - anywhere at all. And as there were no VADs attached to British military units in Belgium, then for them, France.

Sue

[mcmanusruth]

Everything is starting to click into place now - thanks to all of you for your help. Iza's brother appears on the same memorial, I hadn't been certain until now, as he wasn't on the census return. He was Lieut. E.J. Mahony, 1st Batt. Royal Munster Fusiliers, according to CWGC website he died on 27/9/18 at the age of 31 and is buried at Hermies Hill British Cemetery in France.

[mcmanusruth]

Thought you'd like to know that I found Iza Mahony's death cert (and her death is registered as Iza, not Elizabeth) yesterday and the cause of death is given as 'poly glandular disease pneumonia certified'. So it would seem that Jim was right in thinking that she was a civilian and that her death was not directly related to her service. Her father notified the death - it was just a few months after her brother was killed. I had trouble finding him in the MICs, turns out that he's on the war memorial as Edmund, in the CWGC as E.J. and in the MICs as Edward Joseph. He landed in France on 15/8/18 and was killed on 27/9/18.

[mcmanusruth]

The BRC record for the author and poet Winifred M. Letts gives her detachment as Co. Dublin Special. I do not know whether the word 'Special' should precede 'Nurse' which is given on the following line as her Rank. Dates of enrolment 1.9.15 - 30.6.16.

I've just received a list from the British Red Cross of the Irish VADs, from 1918. Amazing how many Detachments there actually were!

As Sue mentioned above, the women's detachments were all given even numbers, while the men's had odd numbers. For Dublin city there were women's detachments numbered 2 to 52 PLUS (and this may be relevant re Winifred) two at the bottom of the list termed 'Special Reserve'. One was organised by (or the 'Commandant was) Mrs Bowen Colthurst from Brookville, Raheny, and the other by a Miss Thompson of 29 Lower Fitzwilliam Street.

As for the possible geographical significance to the numbers, it's not really clear to me. For example, number 22's commandant was Mrs Manders of 5 Waterloo Place and number 36 was Mrs Harkness at 15 Waterloo Place... There's also a separate listing for County Dublin, but the addresses given for the Commandants overlap with those for the City of Dublin. The County Dublin listings include numbers 2 to 56, with Glenageary being listed at the end without a number.

[BeppoSapone]

One was organised by (or the 'Commandant was) Mrs Bowen Colthurst from Brookville, Raheny, and the other by a Miss Thompson of 29 Lower Fitzwilliam Street.

I suppose Mrs Bowen-Colthurst was some sort of relation to the infamous Captain Bowen-Colthurst who had three Journalists executed after the 1916 Easter Rising?

"THE EASTER RISING of 1916 which occurred exactly 84 years ago today, was marked by many extraordinary events, but surely the most disturbing was the summary execution of three journalists - Francis Sheehy Skeffington, Thomas Dickson and Patrick McIntyre. It was never suggested that they had the remotest connection with the rebels. Sheehy Skeffington, a well-known pacifist and a determined fighter for votes for women, was trying to prevent looting when he was arrested. McIntyre, editor of a newspaper called Searchlight, and Dickson, editor of The eye-opener, seem to have been picked up casually. All three were brought to Portobello Barracks by Capt. Bowen-Colthurst, who hailed from Dripsey, near Cork City."

http://homepage.eircom.net/~irishhistory/An%20Irishman.htm

[Jimmy Taylor]

I suppose Mrs Bowen-Colthurst was some sort of relation to the infamous Captain Bowen-Colthurst who had three Journalists executed after the 1916 Easter Rising?

She was Susan Bowen-Colthurst and was the Captain's sister-in-law. Her husband Robert was KIA in 1915 while serving with the Leinster Regiment.