shaymen Posted 10 November , 2005 Share Posted 10 November , 2005 Ok Here goes - Working away in my office today - Tap on the door - 'Come in' I say. In walks a chap from the Toolroom below- he says - ' Glyn I've been told you know a bit about researching Soldiers from WW1' 'A bit' I reply - Anyway he proceeds to ask if I can find out about his Great Uncle HERBERT WALKER SIMPSON - he's on the West Hartlepool Memorial. http://www.wigginton-york.co.uk/Hartlepool/panel10.jpg Me thinks easy peasy - Get home SDGW, CWGC, MIC, etc etc - get a nice little bundle - give it to him in the morning. Guess who can't bloody find him !!!!! Glyn - feeling pi**ed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 10 November , 2005 Share Posted 10 November , 2005 Glyn Maybe not a soldier? Maybe not from the area - but a relative was? Maybe one of those that's going to irritate the f**k out of you for months to come (doncha just hate the ones you can't find)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrymurland Posted 10 November , 2005 Share Posted 10 November , 2005 I've got one like that on the New Radnor memorial. I'm tearing my hair out ........! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 10 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2005 Thanks John Exactly what I was thinking - and I thought this one was gonna be easy Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFF Posted 11 November , 2005 Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Prehaps he was discharged from service and died from War related injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 11 November , 2005 Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Could only find these ones from the MIC: Simpson, Herbert W Corps: Army Service Corps Regiment No: T4/216167 Rank: Private Simpson, Herbert W Corps: Labour Corps Regiment No: 198310 Rank: Private Simpson, Herbert W Corps: Welsh Regiment Regiment No: 73574 Rank: Serjeant... Simpson, Herbert W Corps: Royal Engineers Regiment No: 418489 Rank: Serjeant... Simpson, Herbert W Corps: Suffolk Regiment Regiment No: 17856 Rank: Private Simpson, Herbert W Corps: Rifle Brigade Regiment No: 4275 Rank: Corporal... Simpson, Herbert W Corps: Hampshire Regiment Regiment No: 12551 Rank: Corporal... Perhaps one of these? Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 11 November , 2005 Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Or perhaps this one listed with the CWGC: SIMPSON, HERBERT Initials: H W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Serjeant Regiment: Durham Light Infantry Unit Text: 1st/6th Bn. Date of Death: 27/05/1918 Service No: 91644 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 11 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Tim Thanks for that. I had found him aswell - thought Yes - checked SDGW - problem is his middle name is William not Walker and he was not born in right area - I'll keep searching. Update - Its the chap I work with's Uncle (not great uncle) and according to his mother ( Herberts sister ) she says they were living at 12 Duke Street ( Hartlepool - I think) during the war and her brother was reported missing around the end of the war and after that her mother would never lock the door - still expecting him to come home - very sad. Herbert was an adopted child - his father was George Frederick Simpson who served in India ? Any more help on this would be appreciated. How do we check overseas death records ? one for Terry D maybe. Thanks Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Arnold Posted 11 November , 2005 Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Glyn, You can check oversees deaths on 1837online. Here It will cost but could be invaluable in getting his death reference if he did die overseas. I have one on a memorial who isn't on CWGC, SDGW but does have a mic. I obtained his death certificate and he had died at home from flu. Hope this helps. Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 11 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Ali Many thanks for that Will get on it right away and report back Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 11 November , 2005 Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Glyn i have quite a few units on 1837.com so Pm me with the details that you require Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 11 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Glyn i have quite a few units on 1837.com so Pm me with the details that you require Chris <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Chris Your offer is much appreciated but just too late. Signed up - got a fivers worth of credit and guess what - still can't find him. Found 1 H.W. Simpson but he's the one mentioned by Tim earlier in the thread. Hope to find out more details from his NOK next week. Its possible he's only on as H.Simpson but nothing obvious at the moment. As he was adopted I then thought - maybe birth name - stuck Herbert Walker into SDGW - and 2 came up but don't match up with any details I have so far. Regards Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Arnold Posted 11 November , 2005 Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Glyn, Is it worth persuing a death at home instead of overseas. Had a quick look on Ancestry.com but can't find anything obvious yet. Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 11 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Ali At the moment Its worth persuing anything - but the info from his sister (still alive- although its her son who I have been talking to) is that he never returned having been missing in action presumed dead. Thanks for your interest Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Arnold Posted 12 November , 2005 Share Posted 12 November , 2005 Glyn, very interesting. Then I would persue a variant on the surname. I will have a look for you later today. Have you found him on the 1901 census? Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 15 April , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2006 Just received this info from fellow pal John84. Glyn, good news, I have traced Herbert Walker Simpson. I have just acquired the complete Roll of Honour for all men listed on West Hartlepool war memorial, information varies from man to man. Here are what details are recorded for Herbert on the roll; Herbert Walker Simpson, Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve. Died: August 21st, 1918. Address, Duke Street, West Hartlepool. Glyn know wonder we could not find him on the CWGC, having checked again on the CWGC, only one man named Simpson died on August 21st, 1918. serving with the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, he was Tyneside Z/8009, Leading Seaman, John William Simpson, Hood Battalion. Royal Naval Division. Died, 21/08/1918, no known grave, commemorated, Vis-en-Artois memorial, Pas de Calais, France. I believe that there must be two reasons why the CWGC has Herbert's Christian and middle names wrong, firstly this is a clerical error on their behalf, or and I think this second one more likely, Herbert enlisted under the alias of John William......Also there is no John William Simpson on West Hartlepool war memorial....I think we have 100% nailed him. All the best John. My next question - anyone enlighten me what regiment he may have been with whilst fighting alongside the army boys. Be nice to find out a bit more about any actions on the day he died. Any other info fellow pals can add will be appreciated. Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 15 April , 2006 Share Posted 15 April , 2006 Glyn I'm afraid this is where I do my "wet blanket" routine. I'm chuffed that John84 has found the positive ID of Herbert Walker Simpson on the memorial. However, I cannot yet share the enthusiasm for thinking that, somehow, he becomes John William Simpson. John suggests two possible reasons for this - clerical error and use of an alias. The third, of course, is that it's not the same man and I think you need to eliminate this. It's not as though we are talking about an uncommon surname here. It is entirely possible that there are two men called Simpson. By way of example, I have two local men, both with identical first names and surnames, who were killed on the same day with the same battalion - one has a known grave, the other is on the Menin Gate (and I have absolutely no way of knowing who is who). It's a bu*ger, innit? To answer your question, though, John84 gives John William's unit as Hood Battalion, RND, so it should be possible to track down the events of the day. Might even be a casualty report. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 15 April , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2006 John Thanks for that (no problem with the wet blanket routine) and I agree that it might not be quite as positive as we first imagined. As you suggest we need to try and eliminate whether this is the same man ??? From the info I have been told - He was definitely killed late in the war - YES. He was sort of adopted (May be reasoning behind different names) - living with family in Duke Street YES. There are no other Simpsons on CWGC/SDGW who died on that date - except John William YES. Date in question confirmed as 21 Aug 1918 - YES. From info (from John84) on Roll of Honour we have confirmed date for death of Herbert Walker - why no mention of him on CWGC unless he IS John William then CWGC do have him ???? The plot thickens ! Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John84 Posted 15 April , 2006 Share Posted 15 April , 2006 John...yep I have to agree with you, this could indeed be another soldier named John William Simpson, but the Hartlepool Roll of Honour I have names Herbert Walker Simpson, Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve. Died: August 21st, 1918, as stated above only one soldier is listed by the CWGC named Simpson (John William Simpson) ....as having lost his life on August 21st, 1918, so if this is not Herbert Walker Simpson, enlisting under the alias of John William or is not a clerical error on the CWGC register, Herbert Walker Simpson, must not be commemorated by the CWGC.???? John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 15 April , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2006 John and John Just another point - the info I had was that he was missing presumed KIA - once again fits our John William as he has no known grave. Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John84 Posted 15 April , 2006 Share Posted 15 April , 2006 she says they were living at 12 Duke Street Glyn Just noticed this on one of your posts...it has to be him , living at the same street as is on the roll of honour. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John84 Posted 15 April , 2006 Share Posted 15 April , 2006 Glyn Another thought, would men service records have survived, that served with the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, if so theses should give his address, next of kin, etc. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 15 April , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2006 John Yes agreed, but that only confirms the roll of honour details for Herbert Walker Simpson. What the 'Wet Blanket' brigade (only joking JH) are saying is John William a different person. Maybe I should set up a poll Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 15 April , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2006 Glyn Another thought, would men service records have survived, that served with the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, if so theses should give his address, next of kin, etc. John. Good shout John Hopefully some of RN experts can advise - although I think there was a better chance with RN than others. Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 15 April , 2006 Share Posted 15 April , 2006 Don't discount the possibility that they may be, say, brothers. And this accounts for the same home address. And I know of one case where only one brother is commemorated on the war memorial. My guess being that the family never gave up hope that he might be alive (as he was posted as missing). I can only repeat the old Sherlock Holmes method - eliminate the impossible and whatever remains, however implausible, must be the truth. In this case, eliminate one the chaps or convince yourslef why he assumed an alias. John Hartley Research Associate Wet Blankets R Us a trading subsidiary of Pedants R Us (Honduras) Inc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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