Hopkins1418 Posted 8 November , 2005 Share Posted 8 November , 2005 Hi everyone Ive been researching my Great Grand father Arthur George Hopkins Born in scarborough In 1898. Through some reaserch I managed to establish he was In the South wales borderers [imprinted around his BWM medal]. I have just purchased the only Arthur george Hopkins medal card today. On this It states that he served with The South wales borderers The Cheshire regiment the Labour Corps The kings own Scottish borderers Now Ive looked at the interpretting Medal cards linked to this site and have disregarded what looks like a three stroked tally above the South Wales borderers part as a battalion number. I know for a fact that he was at Passchandaele where he was shot through the eye possibly in 1916 and evacuated although this is not certain. His card does not show any embarkation date on it [commen apparently after 1915] or sign of the 1915 star. I have access to his BWM and thus Service number if that helps. I have promised my grandad that I could come up with some dates or location linked to his father. The card however has quashed this. Thats where YOU! come in I was thinking there must be a reason for such unit movement which must be traceable. any help on possible information relating to why he changed regiment so many times, possible dates, or to be honest any info, would be greatly appreciated. [also as a born and bred yorkshiremen from Scarborough why was he in these units. Did they recruit in the area?] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 8 November , 2005 Share Posted 8 November , 2005 will,hopkins is a welsh name,maybe he joined a welsh regt because of his family roots,OR,was he a young soldier of about 17/18 years old who may have wanted to enlist,but didnt want his parents to find him,the usual thing that happens is,they move around to avoid detection,so he may have ended up in the cheshire regt,or the labour corps,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopkins1418 Posted 9 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2005 Yep good point. Just been looking at his brothers Medal cards, Im almost certain his older bothers Francis Eduard Hopkins born 1893 [according to census] The Welsh Regiment 202168 private The Royal Engineers 367000 Sapper and Alexander Joseph Hopkins Born 1898 Royal Airforce 28998 Air mechanic 3rd class Royal Engineers 20202889 Sapper Im thinking he may have tried to make contact with his brother in the Welsh regiment. Its a possiblity. He also has three other brothers within recruitment age of which i think I may have found another Cecil Hopkins the yorkshire regiment He was born in 1900 so probabley joined up after Arthur was wounded in 1916 as for the other two brothers william born 1888 and alfred born 1899 im still searching. Without middle names though its pretty hard going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted 9 November , 2005 Share Posted 9 November , 2005 How about this scenario? Wounded, and after recovery deemed not fit for further frontline service, so drafted into the Labour Corps (as I believe happened a lot). Drafted back into a frontline regiment during the crisis of the German spring offensive 1918. Have seen this quite a lot – line regiment – Labour Corps – line regiment. I believe it fits the above, though I guess we’ll never know for certain. Duncan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopkins1418 Posted 9 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2005 Trying to convince my mum to take me up to Kew to get hold of his and his brothers service records [if they didnt get burnt!]. At the moment though shes not havving any of it. Oh well gonna call my grandad and see if he can possibly get one of my aunties to copy a picture of his dad and his brothers. apparently Francis's daughter is still alive [ that would be my grandads cousin]. I think its best to talk in person though. a trip to Scarborough would be more plausable for my mum even though its further away from Kew! [ Im Living in Plymouth] Do you reckon the regimental numbers are traceable do they realate to battalions? Is there any database with these numbers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted 9 November , 2005 Share Posted 9 November , 2005 Depends. What are the numbers and regiments? Sometimes they can tell a lot, often nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopkins1418 Posted 9 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2005 These were the numbers [next to the regiments] Francis Eduard Hopkins born 1893 [according to census] The Welsh Regiment 202168 private The Royal Engineers 367000 Sapper Alexander Joseph Hopkins Born 1898 Royal Airforce 28998 Air mechanic 3rd class Royal Engineers 20202889 Sapper Arthur George Hopkins 1898 The South wales borderers 26902 The Cheshire regiment 59813 the Labour Corps 38567 The kings own Scottish borderers 46975 Ive just looked at the 2nd battalion of the South Wales Borderers which relates to the last number it comes up with flanders and france but no specifics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted 9 November , 2005 Share Posted 9 November , 2005 I'll see what I can find tonight and get back to you. Duncan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted 11 November , 2005 Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Hi, I've checked out those numbers. The only one that can be traced to a specific unit is 202168 Welsh Regiment. That's from a batch (2000001 - 240000) allocated to the 1/4th TF Battalion Welsh Regiment post 1/1/17. Cheers, Duncan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 11 November , 2005 Share Posted 11 November , 2005 I've only recently started looking at some of the Labour Corps men, while helping on the Forum. The low Labour Corps numbers seem to be for transfers from Labour Battalions of the Infantry around mid-1917. I think Arthur may have been in one of the Cheshire Regiment's five labour battalions and transferred to the Labour Corps around about April 1917. Combined with Duncan's post that probably means: South Wales Borderers - Infantry battalion? (perhaps) Cheshire Regiment - Labour Battalion 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st or 22nd Btn. Labour Corps - 56th (ex 18th), 59th (ex 19th), 60th (ex 20th), 61st (ex 21st) or 63rd (ex 22nd) Labour Companies. King's Own Scottish Borderers - drafted back to Infantry in March/April 1918. So, could be: With infantry with SWB. Wounded/gassed/etc. sometime before 1917 and medically downgraded. Moved to Cheshire Regiment Labour battalion (SWB did not have any Labour Battalions), transferred to Labour Corps after Corps was created (1-1-17). Drafted back to Infantry in 1918 manpower emergency. Of course, assumptions can be completely wrong, especially where the army is concerned! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 11 November , 2005 Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Alexander Hopkins: RAF number. Numbers below 200000 were allocated to existing Royal Flying Corps men on creation of the RAF on 1-4-1918. His RE number should be 2202889 (not 20202889). That is apparently one of the 7-digit transitional numbers before the whole Army was issued new unique Army Numbers in 1920. I can't tell you what units they would have been for though, sorry. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 11 November , 2005 Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Your scenario looks credible, Stebie. Just one worry, though. If he was shot in the eye in 1916, I can`t imagine a one eyed man being drafted back in 1918. Or would he? Or perhaps he wasn`t blinded? Nobody ever said this WW1 stuff was an exact science! Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopkins1418 Posted 11 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2005 Thanks for your help people. Since my last post ive been doing some reaserch of my own the only unit aborbtion I could find were the 10th cheshires of the 7th brigade 25th division been absorbed into the 15th South wales borderers in june 1918. Like youve all said though its all guess work. Without a look in a Kew Nothings certain. Oh well thanks for your help guys. Will P.s this isnt over untill I work this out !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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