Trench Howitzer Battery. RGA

[Guest Jimmy Knacky]

Looking for any info on Trench Howitzer Batteries Royal Garrison Artillery December 1915.

What info has anyone? (anything)

They did exist for these 2 gunners below in 32nd and 34th Batteries (well at least in December 1915)

Thomas Wadey. Gunner 3291.

32nd T.Howitzer Battery. Royal Garrison Artillery.

Born: Willington Quay. Wallsend.

Enlisted: Jarrow.

Living: Jarrow.

Killed in action 3rd December 1915.

Son of Thomas William and Charlotte Wadey of Willington Quay. Wallsend.

Husband of Catherine Wadey (Monaghan) of 46 Lord Street Jarrow.

Grave III.C.4. Menin Road South Military Cemetery.

Medal Index Card.

Name: Thomas Wadey.

Corps: RGA.

Rank: Gunner.

Regimental Number: 3291 (and below that 278291?)

Theatre of War:(17 France)

Date of Entry: 06/06/1915

Victory Medal

British War Medal

1914/15 Star

Remarks: Killed in Action 3.12.15

Clifford Blackburne. Gunner 53784.

34th Trench Howitzer Battery. Royal Garrison Artillery.

Born: Fleetwood.

Enlisted: Fleetwood.

Died of Wounds 19th December 1915

Grave II.D.24.Lijssenthoek Military Cemetery.

Other Royal Garrison Artillery batteries operating in Ypres December 1915 (that I could find):

Heavy: 48th, 86th, 108th, 112th, 121st.

Seige: 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 14th, 33rd, 34th.

Trench Mortar: 12th, 27th, 34th, 48th, 51st, 88th, 121st.

[Old Tom]

Hello,

I am no expert, but have read quite a lot about WW1 artillery, no recollection of 'Trench Howitzers'. May be a flight of fancy but could it be that the early heavy trench mortars were for a short time called trench howitzers. After all when the war started the BEF, unlike the Germans had no mortars, various types were produced during 1915, light, medium and heavy, and the mortar was historically a siege weapon and may have been thought appropriate for RGA units.

Old Tom

[Guest Jimmy Knacky]

Hello,

I am no expert, but have read quite a lot about WW1 artillery, no recollection of 'Trench Howitzers'. May be a flight of fancy but could it be that the early heavy trench mortars were for a short time called trench howitzers. After all when the war started the BEF, unlike the Germans had no mortars, various types were produced during 1915, light, medium and heavy, and the mortar was historically a siege weapon and may have been thought appropriate for RGA units.

Old Tom

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Just trying to find roughly what action Thomas Wadey my great uncle was in........

The Artillery is not like tracing other army regiments is it.

You got RFA, RHA, RGA,

Heavy Batteries, Seige Batteries, Trench Batteries, Mortar Batteries.

Numbering from 1st to 221st

Then Trench Howitzer Batteries.

I Know Tom Wadey had been in the Boer War and India in the Artillery (which of the 3 Artilleries I don't know)

I also don't know if he had came out of the army before WW1 and got recalled (his date of entry on his MIC is 6th June 1915) or had came back from India with his Battery in June 1915

If he had of been in something like the 48th Heavy battery or summit it would have been a bit of a starting point instead of 32nd T. Howitzer Battery.

And these T. or Trench Howitzer batteries must of existed in the RGA cos theres other lads down on SDGW in similar Howitzer Batteries like the other lad in the 34th Trench Howitzer battery.

Mind I can't find any other deaths in December 1915 for a 32nd Howitzer battery

So did his Howitzer jam and blow in the breach or did a sniper pick him off or was he just gassed on the Khazi?

Some bugga buried him and stuck 32nd T. Howitzer Battery RGA on his wooden cross.

Same with the other lad Clifford Blackburne somebody scratched 34th Trench Howitzer Battery RGA on his 3 by 2

[Guest Jimmy Knacky]

Is this not your Royal Garrison Artillery Trench Howitzer

Which used to dig a deeper trench every time it fired by the looks of it......

This has got to be a Trench Howitzer (9"?)

[Graham Stewart]

Jimmy,

I think Old Tom does have a point regarding the names of the early mortar batteries, as they were ad-hoc inventions cobbled together to combat the German equivalent. It's not until the invention of the Stokes Mortar that you see an adaption into "Light", "Medium" and "Heavy" Trench Mortar Batteries of a type that aren't too unfamiliar to us today.

However luckily I have the Orbat's of the Divisions and I have actually found one reference to such units, but alas serving with 13th Division in Basra. It actually says;-"133, 134, 136, 137 Trench Howitzer Batteries(each 4x 2" mortars) disembarked at Basra on 9/11/1916". Yet when I go through all of the Divisions in my books, no reference is made what-so-ever of any other T.H.B.'s, other than these.

Now it appears that these T.H.B.'s may have been done away with on the Western Front on the formation of the Trench Mortar Batteries as we know them, but I can't prove it. The disappearance of so many T.H.B.'s is a mystery and we can only assume that this is what happend as they never appear in any other Order of Battle that I have.

Nor do they appear in J.B.M. Fredericks book's "The Lineage Book of British Land Forces 1660 - 1978" which covers two volumes, one of which is dedicated purely to Artillery formations.

So Jimmy they did exist, but very little is known about them and they may have either been disbanded or absorbed on the formation of the T.M.B.'s.

Graham.

[joseph]

Jimmy,

Thomas Wadey had another number which was 278291 this could be a new army number for a locally raised battery. The gun is a MK1 8inch Howitzer.

Regards Charles

[Guest Jimmy Knacky]

Jimmy,

Thomas Wadey had another number which was 278291 this could be a new army number for a locally raised battery. The gun is a MK1 8inch Howitzer.

Regards Charles

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Cheers Tom

Cheers Graham every little bit helps (cos I know bugga all about artillery) mind I dont think the 32nd Trench Howitzer Battery RGA would of been firing off 2" mortars - they fire bigger rockets off than that on bonfire night nowadays (and after)

So feel free to chip in anyone as anythings a bonus

Yes Joseph (or charles) what's his other number 27829I?

Is it cos as you say (or I think you are) he went from a regular battery in the RGA to some newly formed Trench Howitzer Battery which looks like it died a death in a few months?

Heres a copy of his MIC

[Guest Jimmy Knacky]

Just trying to find roughly what action Thomas Wadey my great uncle was in........

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Would be nice to find out summit me bonny lads n lasses..........

killed on the 3rd of December 1915 somewhere round the menin road area (his graves in menin road military cemetery - might or might not have a bearing) ?

[Old Tom]

Hello,

On reading my effort I was wrong to imply light, medium, and heavy in 1915. Incidentally some of the early mortars were 2" but the bomb was on the end of a 2" rod, or spiggot, the business end was a large sphere.

The date suggests very early days for British mortars.

Old Tom

[Guest Jimmy Knacky]

Hello,

On reading my effort I was wrong to imply light, medium, and heavy in 1915. Incidentally some of the early mortars were 2" but the bomb was on the end of a 2" rod, or spiggot, the business end was a large sphere.

The date suggests very early days for British mortars.

Old Tom

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Cheers Tom

Am I posting in the wrong section or something?

Any info at all from anyone is much appreciated