bobfoster Posted 4 November , 2005 Share Posted 4 November , 2005 I understand that some of the German trenches on the Western Front were very well constructed, does anyone know if there are any examples in existance today. I havn't seen any listed in reference books. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 4 November , 2005 Share Posted 4 November , 2005 Bob, there is a small stretch of German Trench that has been restored called the Bayenwald Trench on the Messines Ridge just outside Ypres. It is fenced off but you can gain access by contacting/visiting the local tourist office and for a small fee they will inform you of the gate code. They have a couple of concrete bunkers to view conected by a trench system restored on the footprint of the originals and a very informative 'relief' map of the Messines Ridge to view, but they do not have any deep dugouts there. Hope this helps, Regards, Scottie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Roper Posted 4 November , 2005 Share Posted 4 November , 2005 'Bayernwald' is the most obvious. Also refered to as Croonart Wood (allies term for the same area) close by to where Hitler won his Iron Cross. Very good for looking at German methods of revetting the sides of a trench. Worth also looking at the recent 'Hitler, The Rise of Evil' drama for seeing this. Often useful to highlight the different methods used to structure a trench, for some reason the inverted A frame always excites me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycad Posted 4 November , 2005 Share Posted 4 November , 2005 In the Toule and Verdun sectors of the French front, especially in the many woods and forests, there are many trenches still in existence today. There are many sections which were made of concrete, and I got the indelible impression that they were built by the modern equivelents of Messsrs Wimpey and Co. In reality of course, they were built by German engineers within sight and hearing of the French trenches, and the French must have known what was going on. But perhaps it was a matter of live and let live, particularly in those areas where there was no movement over three years or so. A final impression I gained looking at these trenches was as the whistles blew at 11am on 11th November was that the Germans left them almost as we see them today, except that they are now buried in mature woodlands. Whilst in the Ypres Salient, the Somme and elswhere, the early expectatations were that they would be left as part of our Heritage, such as Churchill's desire to see Ypres remain as a ruined monument. But even before a policy could be formulated the previous inhabitants moved in and started reclaiming the land and villages. In the Verdun sector however it was thought that much of the land would be too polluted to be reclaimed. and the decision was made to allow the land to be afforested. Here endeth the lesson, but I could be tempted to post some of my better photographs!. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 5 November , 2005 Share Posted 5 November , 2005 Hi Tony Please feel free to post your photos better or not. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 5 November , 2005 Share Posted 5 November , 2005 Don't forget Vimy. There's a good-sized section of German trench there(rather clinically preserved, though). Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Gray Posted 5 November , 2005 Share Posted 5 November , 2005 Also in Newfoundland Park at Beaumont Hamel, on the Somme. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunners dream Posted 5 November , 2005 Share Posted 5 November , 2005 There's also a good example of a bunker off the Albert to Bapaume Road the other side of Pozieres on the right by the Australian 1st Division Memorial. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle bill Posted 5 November , 2005 Share Posted 5 November , 2005 The best I 've ever seen are in the BOIS BRULE in the Saint Mihiel sector. The lines here were static until the American offensive in september 18. You can fllow a whole network of concreted trenches and go down into dugouts. Barbed wire grows out of the trees and there are still a few shattered stumps in amongst the trees with shrapnel in them. A most eerie place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 5 November , 2005 Share Posted 5 November , 2005 There are many German trenches in the Vosges carved in rock; Marco's Unfortunate Region site has lots of information on this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobfoster Posted 5 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 5 November , 2005 Many thanks for your replies. Have plans to visit Ieper early next year and will visit Messines Ridge. I just wondered if any of the German trenches of 1st July 1916 existed on the Somme today. I have read in some books they were virtually untouched by the British bombardment as they were so well made. It would seem that the land was reclaimed after the war without any thought of preservation. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunners dream Posted 5 November , 2005 Share Posted 5 November , 2005 Bob, As Rob mentions your best bet is the Newfoundland Memorial Park for the Somme. That is around 80 acres of preseved trenches from that time. See this link: http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?s...m/beaumonthamel Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientguide Posted 6 November , 2005 Share Posted 6 November , 2005 Bob Have a read of The Golden Virgin by Henry Williamson (more usually known as author of Tarka the Otter these days) Its part of a huge 15odd volume semi autobiographical series called The Chronicle of Ancient Sunlight. It goes into great detail about his family and difficult relationship with his pedantic and anally retentive father but follows the heroes progress through WW1 . This volume deals with the Somme and particularly the question of the deep german dugouts. Your memory is a little hazy on what you read. The German trenches, and any other trench were completly obliterated by the preliminary bombardment if directed directly unto them, after all however well made they were only ditches lined with wood or wattle. What the British failed to appreciate, and this was the key cause of the failure of 1st July was not well constructed trenches but incredibly well constructed deep dug outs of complex and reinforced design. These did withstand the week long bombardment. As soon as it stopped the garrisons knew the attack was coming and just had time top get up and out with their maxix machine guns tp begin the carnage of the slowly advancing British troops, SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 7 November , 2005 Share Posted 7 November , 2005 I regularly take groups around completely untouched trenches which are still complete with barbed wire entanglements and (unfortunately) filled in dugouts. Such areas exist in several places (both French and German trenches) in the St. Mihiel salient area. You have to know where to look, there are no signs to them - except to a restored area near Flirey. Get in touch if you want a tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted 7 November , 2005 Share Posted 7 November , 2005 The woods in the hills around Soissons are full of German trenches (high ground as usual). They are largely ingnored and are used by the hunters when the season is on. no-one seems to care much about them so you can wander around in almost complete trench systems. Go in the winter when the undergrowth is clear. But watch those bloody hunters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycad Posted 9 November , 2005 Share Posted 9 November , 2005 Since my response above, I have been looking at my photographic collection. and you may be interested in visiting the crater in the grounds of the former Hooge Chateau, now the Hotel Kasteel. It is almost opposite the Hooge Military Cemetery It appears as if entry is not welcomed into what are the private grounds of the Hotel, but entry to the site itself is open to the public for a small donation in a box at the entrance. I believe it is well worth a visit, as there is a lot to be seen in a relatively small area. One of the former mines, blown by the Germans in 1915, is now a very tranquil, but ominous looking lake in the shadows of the trees, set in a very broken landscape, where two British mines were also exploded. The banks surrounding the lake are about 20feet high. The lake with one of the bunkers. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycad Posted 9 November , 2005 Share Posted 9 November , 2005 The second German bunker. Relating to another thread, it is built with concrete blocks, The low wall to the left in front of the bunker was built to prorect the entrance, now facing the German lines after its captue, More: Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycad Posted 9 November , 2005 Share Posted 9 November , 2005 Some battlefield debris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycad Posted 9 November , 2005 Share Posted 9 November , 2005 About 50 yards of realistic trenches, as wet and muddy now as when built. There may be a question that these are not original. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Heyvaert Posted 9 November , 2005 Share Posted 9 November , 2005 The craters are from mines blown by Canadians in summer 1916. The actual Hooge Crater from 1915 does not exist anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 9 November , 2005 Share Posted 9 November , 2005 I agree with Paul. The German military archeology in the Vosges is unsurpassed; trenches, hospitals, generators, aerial ropeways, old cemeteries - it has the lot in terms of range and quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 9 November , 2005 Share Posted 9 November , 2005 There may be a question that these are not original.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> They're definately not original but, like Yorkshire Trench, they are excavated trenches dug on the actual site of the originals during an archaelogical excavation in (circa) 1991. They've been left to rot a little over the past few years but i think that just adds to the ambience of them. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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