Army hairstyles

[gporta]

I just got this picture postcard,

The humorous caption reads "After the (H)air raid", and in the back of it there is a written note "Staff Captain Williams Brother"

Most of the men seem to wear the "Utility" Service Dress jacket, and they wear stiff SD caps. The cap badge looks quite like that of the Queen's (Royal West Surreys, and also 22nd and 24th London Regt.). From my reference, the shoulder titles (which are not too clear could indicate the territorial 4th and 5th Queen's or the aforementioned London Bn., but then the lanyard of all (and the ammo pouches of one) suggest a mounted or artillery unit: that badge could then belong (unnoficially, though) to the ASC Armoured Car Companies... in the Middle east (and the clothing does not suggest the weather of these places).

No battle patches, this, and the barracks behind... might suggest a location in Blighty?

There's a an ink pen mark above the head of the soldier in the back row, center, who wears bandolier ammunition pouches.

No further data, but I'd love to learn the story behind the picture.

Gloria

[susanhemmings]

I am no expert at all, but from a book I have on badges etc. cap badges look like 22nd and 24th County of London Battalion (The Queens). Also, the shoulder title of chap extreme left at front similar to that of 1st Brigade (City of London) Territorial RFA.

Wish I could help more, but I am sure if someone else from site sees this they will definately be able to help you.

[Graham Stewart]

Gloria,

I would say they're definately 5th Queens, the shoulder title being T/5/QUEENS rather than the 22nd or 24th County of London Regiment and probably taken at Guildford, where both the 1/5th & 2/5th Bn's served.

The reason I think 5th Queens is because the 22nd & 24th Bn's, County of London Regt, actually wore shoulder titles T/22/COUNTYofLONDON or T/22/LONDON or T/24/COUNTYofLONDON or T/24/LONDON, which were much bigger titles. To back up my theory find a x10 magnifyer or stamp guage and check it out with that.

As for the lad with the bandolier, most probably the Battalion Transport Section and if I'm correct on his right arm he's wearing the WHEELWRIGHTS trade badge, which is a spoked wagon wheel in brass.

Don't be fooled by the lanyards as there was probably nothing at the end of them other than a service issue jack-knife, which was still being issued when I joined up in 1975.

A Captain F.R. Williams Wynn served with the 2/5th Bn from the 15/9/1914, while a C.R. Williams Wynn served with 1st Bn, Coldstream Gds and a Lieut W. Williams Wynn served with the 1st Dragoons. There was also a Lt-Col R.W.H.W Williams Wynn serving with the Montgomery Yeomanry and although cannot prove it, think they were all related.

Graham.

[gporta]

Susan, Graham, thanks for the information, and for the names of people who are possibly related.

I have scanned some of shoulder titles with greater detail... seems that maybe they do like more like the London Rgt. option, but I can't be too sure.

Not a clue about the reason of cropped hair, lice were common in trenches (so I've read) but must have not been so in Blighty... An over-zealous barber?

Gloria

[Graham Stewart]

Gloria & Susan,

You're right once they're blown up they are T/24/LONDON and not T/5/QUEENS as I had originally thought. Thats some scanner you've got there, what make and model is it, as I could do with something similar myself?

Quite possible it's either the 2/24th London which were in the huts at Sutton Veny by Jan 1916 or the 3/24th which were in billets at Tadworth for the winter.

Graham.

[Dragon]

A Captain F.R. Williams Wynn served with the 2/5th Bn from the 15/9/1914, while a C.R. Williams Wynn served with 1st Bn, Coldstream Gds and a Lieut W. Williams Wynn served with the 1st Dragoons. There was also a Lt-Col R.W.H.W Williams Wynn serving with the Montgomery Yeomanry and although cannot prove it, think they were all related.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello Graham

I can't comment on the military theme, but the Williams Wynn family are an Anglesey and North Wales family of long provenance who keep cropping up in aspects of Welsh history. I believe you will find some of the people you mention here in Rhwydwaith Archifau Cymru - the page is in English for you.

Gwyn

[susanhemmings]

Graham, (and gloria)

i only took a stab at the badge from the book i have. it just gives badges and then regiment data... but i know absolutely nothing about these things am totally green. the shoulder badge looked about the right shape for the territorial RFA. again know nothing.

Graham,

thanks for the confirmation.

its a good job there are individuals (such as yourself) who do know.

i agree, gloria's scanner certainly does the job.

by the way, i think this site is tremendous because of people such as yourself.

susan.

[gporta]

Graham, Susan, Gwyn, thank you very much for the further comments and hints.

Regarding the scanner, as it is said in my trade "a good original helps towards a good result", and I must say that the picture, if not big, is certainly very clear : I just had to blow up the shoulder detail by scanning it at 1200 ppp. My scanner is a bit old, an AGFA model: SnapScan 1236s. Not that I know, the top-notch table model when I purchased it (the Agfa Arcus was definitely a better scan at the time, but then it was too expensive for my pocket and too big for my table).

Gloria