HMS Julius

[Peter J]

My Grandfather served in the Royal Navy from Aug 1913 to Aug 1921.

As a newcomer to this area of research I have managed to gather small amounts of info about all the ships on which he served but not HMS Julius, other than an obscure reference to a harbour craft base, Constantinople.

Immediately before Julius, he was with HMS Caesar which I find a little too much of a coincidence; Julius/Caesar!

His records show that he was with Caesar for one month in 1919 and then with Julius for the same amount of time before going to Vivid and/or Victory (places conflict according to which document one refers to).

Can anyone throw any light on this please, and is it at all possible that these ships could be one-in-the-same vessel?

[Malcolm]

Trawling the reference book.....

Ceasarea - Armed Boarding Steamer. unlikely

Julia - 310 ton Fishery Protection Vessel unlikely

CEASAR! Hull Registered Trawler requisitioned October 1914 returned 1919 used as a minesweeper, became Ceasar II in 1915 ( indicates another CEASAR launched 1915 somewhere...)

JULIET, req Hull Trawler Minesweeper. same service as above. doubtful.

IMOGENE - Special Service Vessel became JULIUS February 1923. a bit late

PHINGASK - hired Drifter Depot Ship minesweepers, became JULIUS October 1919.

So looks like your Grandfather served on minesweepers most likely HMS CEASAR based on depot ship JULIUS.

Unless someone knows better.

Aye

Malcolm

[Malcolm]

HMS CEASAR was of course a large Majestic Class Battleship. How did I miss that!!

Aye

Malcolm

[Peter J]

HMS CEASAR was of course a large Majestic Class Battleship. How did I miss that!!

Aye

Malcolm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Malcolm,

Thanks very much for your replies, they were very helpful.

I do already have some info on HMS Caesar (including a picture) and I'm fairly sure that my Grandfather was at Constantinople during his time with her. I'm just really puzzled as to why I can't find anything whatsoever on HMS Julius.

Regards, PJ.

[Michael Lowrey]

FWIW, Caesar came to the Med in 1918 and later passed through the Dardenelles to support operations against the Bolsheviks. Constantinople and the Black Sea were obviously new areas of operation, and those the possibility/need for new shore stations and support vessels. I too doubt that there isn't some sport of relationship or connection between Julius and Caesar. My guess would be that it was some sort of shore station or local obtained vessel manned by crews from Caesar and of short duration (abandoned or renamed).

Best wishes,

Michael

[PhilB]

North East Medals have this for sale -

L1. Royal Naval Long Service and Good Conduct GV

347566 W. Clyme. CPO. CK. HMS Julius.

(HMS Julius = Harbour Craft Base, Constantinople)

GVF. £60

Phil B (no connection!)

[Guest Norman S]

I am currently seeking information regarding the circumstances surrounding the death of Lieut J F Morris of H.M.S. Julius, who, according to CWGC, died 2-2-1921 aged 29. His death is commemorated at Mikra British Cemetery, Kalamaria. This cemetery closed in 1920 but contains the Mikra Memorial which lists almost 500 names of nurses, officers and men who died when troop transports and hospital ships were lost in the Med, and have no grave but the sea. It would seem from this and the fact that I have been unable to find any obituary for him in his home town of Romiley,Ches., that H.M.S. Julius was some kind of vessel. If I am wrong in this assumption and H.M.S. Julius was in fact a naval base on dry land, surely Lieut Morris would have a known grave.

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts, suggestions or info on my problem,

Cheers,

Norm.

[kin47]

Hello Norm

LT Morris died by drowning on that date.

All best

don

[Guest Norman S]

Dear Don,

Thanks for the info. I would appreciate anything else that you might have on Lt Morris or if you could point me in the right direction for obtaining same.

Cheers,

Norm.

[kin47]

Hello

JULIUS from 1 October 1919 was the Harbour Craft Base for Constantinople.

Captain of the base as Captain Francis A.L. Andrews, CBE.

Morris was assigned for duty under the Captain of the Port, Constantinople.

He commanded CHARLES ADAIR, a Mersey class Admiralty trawler, from 6 Jan 1920.

The information on his death appears in the March 1921 NAVY LIST obitutaries.

don

[per ardua per mare per terram]

If he was born before 1900, his records should be at Kew in ADM 196.

[bigbill]

On the Service Record (1911-1923) of the person I am researching, the entry for Julius is mystifying:-

Actaeon (Albury) 3 June 19 21 Nov 19

Pembroke II 22 Nov 19 11 July 20

Julius (Heliotrope) 12 July 20 12 Nov 20

Ajax 13 Nov 20 14 ?? 22

Was part of a shore establishment named Julius, or did the name relate to Ajax having been previously serviced at Constantinople?

Most grateful for any thoughts.

[SiegeGunner]

Heliotrope was an Azalea-class minesweeping sloop, launched in 1915 and evidently attached to Julius, the harbour base at Constantinople between the given dates.

Ajax, a George V-class battleship, served with the 4th Battle Squadron (Mediterranean Fleet) between mid-1919 and the spring of 1924 and took part in operations in the Sea of Marmora and the Black Sea.

[centurion]

I am currently seeking information regarding the circumstances surrounding the death of Lieut J F Morris of H.M.S. Julius, who, according to CWGC, died 2-2-1921 aged 29. His death is commemorated at Mikra British Cemetery, Kalamaria. This cemetery closed in 1920 but contains the Mikra Memorial which lists almost 500 names of nurses, officers and men who died when troop transports and hospital ships were lost in the Med, and have no grave but the sea. It would seem from this and the fact that I have been unable to find any obituary for him in his home town of Romiley,Ches., that H.M.S. Julius was some kind of vessel. If I am wrong in this assumption and H.M.S. Julius was in fact a naval base on dry land, surely Lieut Morris would have a known grave.

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts, suggestions or info on my problem,

Cheers,

Norm.

Shore bases could still operate small craft which would not qualify for an HMS in their own right so it is still possible for someone from a shore base to be lost at sea.

[bigbill]

Thanks Siege Gunner - What I don't understand is that he is recorded as being on Pembroke's (Chatham) complement on 11th July, and then the next day 12th July at Julius in Constantinople. What ship took him to the Bosphorus?

[horatio2]

It ain't necessarily so. He was probably borne on the books of HMS PEMBROKE until 11 July (that is not the same as "being on the complement") and probably remained on the books of PEMBROKE while he was taking passage to Constantinople. On arrival he transferred to the ship's book of HMS JULIUS.

[bigbill]

Thanks Horatio II - I've just found your posts in the 'Interpreting Royal Navy Document - Registry of Seamen's Service' forum, so hopefully I'll be a lot wiser when I digest it. Ian.

[bigbill]

In the column 'List and No.' the figures 5 or 14 indicate 'Attached for Admin', and the figure 12 indicates 'Ship Sailed On'.

What do 15 and 18 stand for please? Also, are the figures in the 'No.' column file numbers, or something else?

Thanks again for your other help Horatio re my post above.

[Guest]

My grandfather, Lt Cmdr Alfred George Alexander commanded an admiralty trawler out of HMS Julius, Constantinople from April 1920 to January 1921.  No idea what he was doing. He had been on Monitor 29 at Gallipoli in 1915, and captained Monitors Prince Eugene and Prince Rupert after the war before they were broken up.  He retired from the Navy in 1921 and emigrated to Canada (Vancouver, BC) and then to Seattle, WA.  The whole family returned to England for WWII and all served in the Navy: my grandfather was Kings Harbor Master in Port Edgar, my grandmother served in the WRENs and my father (Capt David L Alexander) was on HMS Howe at Okinawa.  If any of this rings a bell would love to hear from you.