Bremen Redoubt

[Gyrene]

Does anyone know if this Bremen is related to the Breymann who had a redoubt named after him at the Battle of Saratoga in 1777?

[Mat McLachlan]

I would assume the redoubt was named after the German city.

[roel22]

Perhaps the city was named after him.

[PBI]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremen_(city)

I think Not.

[Malte Znaniecki]

Thanks for the brilliant photographs and for the sketch !

Malte

[Marnik]

Today

[bobfoster]

A few years ago I visited the Bremen Redoubt when working as a coach driver taking parties of school children to the Somme and Flanders. We first picked up the keyholder/guide in Zonnebeke and then drove onto the site. We went down into the Redoubt and the guide was giving her talk when the lights suddenly went out. Pitch black for a minute or so a few screams from the kids and the lights came back on again. A very interesting visit. I must admit that I didn't feel very safe down there but it was an experience. Only complaint I had was that the area (it was raining at the time) was covered in a slimy chalky white mud which made one hell of a mess inside the coach.

[ragamuffin]

Many thanks for the replies.

Very interesting photograph, Marnik.

I guess this is where the site originally was?

Danke.

[Clio]

I have not been to the battlefields for several years now. I was reasonably familiar with Bremen Redoubt. Has it gone ? been destroyed by quarrying or something ?

[IanA]

It was certainly closed to the public ten years ago when I tried to get in. I think there has been a general collapse.

[PBI]

It is Long gone.One of the Blokes who works at the Brickyard told me that some type of Microbe/infection began to attack the concrete of the uncovered parts of the Redoubt,and this facilitated in its eventual collapse.

[Clio]

What a shame !

It was one of the few tangible links (other than cemeteries) to the 1917 battles on this part of the salient.

I always remember nipping around the back of the Bremen Redoubt to look at some sort of clay quarry. Work was going on but you could easily make out rust coloured vertical striations in the face of the clay. I presumed these were the remains of underground galleries. I wish this Forum had been up and running in those days to make sense of what I was looking at.

[Nick.Wotherspoon]

What a shame !

It was one of the few tangible links (other than cemeteries) to the 1917 battles on this part of the salient.

I always remember nipping around the back of the Bremen Redoubt to look at some sort of clay quarry. Work was going on but you could easily make out rust coloured vertical striations in the face of the clay. I presumed these were the remains of underground galleries. I wish this Forum had been up and running in those days to make sense of what I was looking at.

I Have to agree it was a great shame it could not be preserved - We visit many Western Front areas and always enjoy being able to actually stand in strucrtures that were used at the time - Chemin des dames, Vosges, Argonne etc. have plenty. But sadly relativley few on the Somme or Ypres now - value of the land + modern health and safety rules will gradually close off everything it seems - progress I suppose?!

We last visited the Bremen redoubt several years ago - I knew it was closed, but asked at the office just in case, as I was passing and simply got a shrug and a finger pointed in the direction I knew it lay. Having negotiated our Motorhome past two large steel pallets full of unexploded shells, partly blocking the way, we pulled up in the now very badly rutted layby behind the factory where the coaches used to park. It was a sad sight - the concrete covering had obviously shifted and showed some very large cracks. The door was ajar and a hefty padlock looked as if it had been forced - We were a bit wary about entering, but tried the light switch and it worked! Inside the stairs were still sound and the roof looked solid - a large unexploded shell lay at the bottom of the emergency exit shaft. The wall had given way in one gallery and daylight was visible as the concrete skin had cracked and fallen away just beyond it, revealing the open overgrown quarry beyond. The floor was in a very poor state and you had to take care not to twist an ankle. We took a few photos for old times sake and made our way out, although at no time did we feel there was any actual danger of collapse or we would not have entered.

Looking at the evidence I felt that the deterioration had been due to exposure to the air as the dugout had been originally underground, but was now effectively on the surface covered by a thin shell of non-reinforced concrete. It loss was sadly inevitable, as the timbers dried out and shrank, the concrete cracked and accelerated the process. The floor was particulalrly vulnerable and whilst it was a great experience to stand on the actual floor from the conflict, it could never survive the constant wear from visitors and so it crumbled. There was evidence of significant fungal infestation on this last visit too, as the surface of the timber was breaking down as it alternately got wet in winter and then dried out gain I would think - no doubt this also could only accelerate the process of deterioration.

Certainly a sad end to a great relic - partly a victim of its own popularity I feel & even better preservation methods would probably have done little more than slow the process a little - at least many people were actually able to experience this site before it was lost.

[bruce]

Whilst searching through some old photos, I can across these three of the Bremen Redoubt.

On the road from Ypres out to Tyne Cot, on the left there is a brick-works. At some time in the past, it quarried the area behind the works, and found a redoubt. To get at it required driving round the back of the works and finding somewhere to park that didn't inconvenience the workers there. The entrance was concreted, but inside it was dark, must, dank, but it was possible to switch on lighting to see the four up rows of chicken-wire bunks.

I can well remember taking a school trip there, and hearing one young lady ask why anyone would want to come into such a damp, musty and unpleasant place. From behind her, a gruff voice pointed out that at least it was warm, safe, and the men could sleep. (Internal rejoicing from teacher at the front....cracked it, I thought!)

The wood has rotted and the redoubt is no longer safe, and I am not even sure that it is still there.

I just thought that the pics might be of interest.

[bruce]

[Paul Reed]

Nice photos - it has gone completely now, Bruce. In fact, it was some years ago it collapsed. Around 2001?

 

[bruce]

 

I was also mistakenly believing that it was German, especially with a name like that.

I used to enjoy taking pupils down there, but not for many years now.

What a pity!

Thanks, again.

Bruce

[paul guthrie]

I was fortunate that it was still accessible during my first visit to the Salient.