"Unknowns" on Gallipoli

[Guest Simon Bull]

I was recently looking at an old thread re Twelve Tree Copse Cemetery in which Martin Wills commented that "unknowns do not have a headstone at all on Gallipoli".

I have not been to Gallipoli and I would be grateful if those who have could enlighten me. Does this mean that there are simply "gaps" in the cemeteries where "unknowns" are buried in unmarked graves?

Simon Bull

[Terry Denham]

Simon

I have not been to Gallipoli and so cannot speak from experience but, looking at the cemetery plan for Twelve Tree, there are no blank spaces.

The cemetery contains 3360 burials of whom 2226 are Unknowns. There are several hundred Special Memorials here to those known to be buried amongst the Unknowns. Also the cemetery contains the Twelve Tree Copse (NZ) Memorial to those Kiwis missing in surrounding areas.

The graves have the usual memorial block instead of a headstone as is found all over the peninsula. See photo..

[MartinWills]

Where the cemeteries were created during the occupation the cemeteries were laid out and most graves were named. Subsequently some of the cemeteries were disturbed and many of the woodem grave markers were removed, generally for firewood by the Turkish army (and the few inhabitants), wood being a precious commodity on Gallipoli at the time and the winters being very cold. You will, therefore, see cemeteries where there are a neat row of the "Special Memorials" to those "known to be buried" or "Believed to be buried", but where individual graves are marked the appearance varies. Some cemeteries, such as Lancashire Landing, are pretty much complete and are the standard neat serried rows. Some, like Twelve Tree Copse have the appearance of having some isolated graves in places - these are typically odd ones in rows in which few are known though there are some graves set aside from the principla plots.. The Farm, has a short row of perhaps no more than a dozen stones (Sp. Memorials) set in line before the alternative cross of sacrifice used on Gallipoli with the general area of the cemetery just grassed wherein line hundreds of soldiers buried in neat and tight rows. The Nek is much the same as The Farm.

Some cemeteries do have the appearance of odd stones dotted about here and there (V Beach; Hill 10 for example) simply reflecting that very few graves are known. It is not generally the case that there are "gaps" in rows of headstones marking the odd "unknown" because of the large number of unknowns.

There are other examples, such as NZ Outpost No. 2 where the alignment of the stones does not match the direction in which the burial plot (which may have been a trench) runs.

If you want to look at the cemetery layouts there are plans for all of them in Taylor and Cupper's "The Gallipoli Battlefield" (Kangaroo Press) which show the extent of the plots and indicate where the stones are placed.

Hope this helps.

Martin

[michaeldr]

Simon,

Part of the problem must have been the very large number of unknowns at Gallipoli. More than 36,000 commonwealth servicemen died at Gallipoli and the 31 war cemeteries there contain 22,000 graves, however only 9,000 were identified leaving 13,000 unidentified graves and 14,000 men whose remains were never found. [figs from the CWGC Info Sheet, Gallipoli, May 1999]

Other problems at Gallipoli are presented by its environment; unstable soil conditions, hot, dry summers and cold winters with occasional torrential rain. Architect Sir John Burnet, assisted by Capt.s Raeburn and Keesing (Aust) examined the problem [1920?] and found it "unreliable and insecure ground unsuitable as foundations for permanent monuments of any size or weight." Thus fewer cemeteries than planned were built, with burials being brought in and concentrated in sites where the land was stable and could be further protected from the elements by ditches, walls and trees. The 'dutch stool' type headstones used at Gallipoli may also have been chosen because they offered greater stability in the uncertain soil conditions, however the architect Burnet was also an opponent of rows of crosses which he thought from certain angles "interlace with one another...giving the appearance of fences destructive of all quiet." [frm Holt's Battlefield Guide Gallipoli]

The names of the unidentified and those never found are recorded on the memorials at Helles, Lone Pine, Twelve Trees Copse, Hill 60 and Chunuk Bair.

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Terry Denham]

Well done Martin. Nothing like an eye-witness account!

The latest figures from CWGC for the 'Unknowns' at Gallipoli (dated 10.07.03) are ...

Commonwealth Burials 22374 of which 13387 are Unknown.

Those on memorials to the missing number 26982

[MartinWills]

Michael alludes to the instability of the area, which is also prone to earthquakes (a factor apparently considered in the decision to use the "dutch stool" type of headstone). It is worth noticing that this instability has become worse in recent years as the area is becoming drier and drier. The movement at the SE corner of the Helles memorial (which is being monitored by the CWGC) is attributed to this.

Whereas in the past many of the cemeteries included trees in the planting scheme, a number of these have been removed in the last two years or so because of successive dry years. Trees use vast amounts of water, starving over plants. This removal/absence of trees is less marked at Suvla. There is no threat, however, to the Duckworth Oak at Redoubt Cemetery, though the two young (very) oaks planted in the cemetery several years ago are no longer there, possibly have perished in the dryness and heat.

[Paul Reed]

I also found this strange when I first visited Gallipoli - as Martin mentions, a cemetery like the farm has nearly seven hundred burials in it. And when you take the torturous route to it and finally get there - only a handful of headstones! As you can see from this image below.

I know one person I have been there finds it strange to 'walk over' so many graves which are not marked.

[Guest Simon Bull]

Many thanks for the replies. I now understand. One day I hope to visit myself and see.

Simon Bull

[michaeldr]

Martin,

Right on cue, I was listening to the BBC WS this morning and heard someone talking about tree planting and water, saying that while previously it was thought that all tree planting was beneficial to the environment, it was now understood that certain species of tree in fact had a net negative effect on the water-table. The WGC were advised by the RBG Kew as to the original planting, however science marches on and today it seems other answers must be found to the problem.

Simon,

Twelve Trees Copse cemetery is a very good example of the problems faced on Gallipoli since this site was not in fact used for burials during the campaign but was established later by relocating burials from other places, notably Clunes Vennel, Fir Tree Wood and Geogheghan's Bluff. These movements together with the problem caused by the locals innocently helping themselves to the valuable wood supplied by the original crosses, may well have contributed to the number of unknowns.

Gallipoli is well worth the visit if you can make it - good luck

Regards

Michael D.R.