jim_davies Posted 19 October , 2005 Share Posted 19 October , 2005 When a men was commissioned he was asked the following question: "The unit (if any) to which desirous of being appointed." Would this usually be a second-line or reserve unit? Or could a man opt for a unit already at the front. Looking at a December 1915 time period. Thanks, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 19 October , 2005 Share Posted 19 October , 2005 The answers that I’ve seen to that question suggest usually just a regiment or corps. Occasionally I’ve seen specific battalions mentioned and they have been front line. The only officer I’ve researched from that about time spent about a year in the UK, training and then with reserve units and then was sent out again in 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_davies Posted 20 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2005 Thanks for your thoughts. I've just received the first set of service papers which include an application for a commission, and wondered on how the process worked. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C729LEE Posted 22 October , 2005 Share Posted 22 October , 2005 Jim Saw your posting and thought I'd have a look through an officers papers which I have. As you know my interest is the Lincs. Regt., so it follows that I would be looking at one of them. On the various sheets which pertain to the application for a commission, I see no question asking if there is a preferred unit. MT392/MT393/B111/B178a. The man in question is 2nd Lt. Francis Brown MC of the 8th Lincs. Pte. F. Brown Started off in the 9th Leics. No.11840, volunteered 04/09/14, to France 29/07/15, promoted acting corporal 17/07/15, substantiated 27/07/15. Prom. to sergeant 14/07/16, & CQMS 23/07/16. Released to England for commission 26/02/17. Commissioned 28/08/17. The next is a little blurred; G.H.Q. 3rd Echelon 13/03/18 2nd Lt. Inf.Section. Then as we know, he was attached to the 8th Lincs (63rd Trench Mortar Bty.) with whom he was KIA, on 05/04/18. You would think a chap, would if he could, choose to return to the unit where he was known and hopefully liked. On the otherhand, where needs, must. Though, it would seem there was a bit of interchanging of personnel between the Lincs/Leics - and many other regiments. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroc Posted 22 October , 2005 Share Posted 22 October , 2005 Hi, have seen some papers in Exeter presented to the Regimental Archives by a young New Army officer in the Devons; having initially servedas a Private in the Public Schools and Universities Brigade, he volunteered for a commission and steadfastly asserted his desire to serve in the Devons, his local regiment; after training in the 10th or 11th btn, he was then sent as a reinforcement to the 9th after Loos; therefore, choice of regiment, but no choice of battalion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_davies Posted 22 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 22 October , 2005 Hi Lee & Petroc, Thanks for the additional info, the records of officer I'm looking appear to be incomplete. Like Lee's lad, he was a Lincs lad, enlisted 2/4th Nov 1914, remained in UK. Commissioned into the 9th Lincs, and then transferred to 2nd Lincs. Killed within a month of going to France. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 22 October , 2005 Share Posted 22 October , 2005 Hello, Recently read 2nd/Lt John Scott Youll, V.C.'s doc's and his first choice was the Durham Light Infantry followed by the Northumberland Fusiliers, with an added note "Pioneer Battalion". As you know he ended up in the 11th Bn,N.F. and won his V.C. in Italy. They were actually quite interesting as he originally enlisted as a Sapper into the Durham Fortress Engineers, before taking his commission. Some of the information on his history sheets certainly didn't tally with the information that is often printed about him. Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_davies Posted 22 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 22 October , 2005 Hi Graham, What are the differences in content in Youll's records/published accounts? I'm actucally having a similar issue with my officer...MIC seems to show service with the TF before commission yet no record any of his other records, and no entitlement to 1914-15 Star (he was commissioned Dec 1915)...obituary and newspaper reports agree with service record..... Cheers, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 22 October , 2005 Share Posted 22 October , 2005 Jim, I haven't got these doc's to hand at present as there's a new memorial to Youll under construction, which will be dedicated at the end of this month so they're with one of the organisers. So what I can tell you is from memory. It appears that his commission on his history sheets was temporary and a T.F. one at that, yet it's often said he was commissioned in to the 1st Bn, N.F. and attached 11th Bn. Well he wasn't given a regular commission at all and there's no mention of having served with or being commissioned into the 1st Bn, but he did serve with 1/1st Durham Fortress Engineers in France after he enlisted in 1915 and I think that's were the confusion lies. There are also mentions of an MID before his commission , but again nothing in any of his history sheets, which surely would have warranted a mention, especially for a young man going for a commission. Personally I tend to believe what I see written in the history sheets. Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_davies Posted 23 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 23 October , 2005 Thanks Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 24 October , 2005 Share Posted 24 October , 2005 There are also mentions of an MID before his commission , but again nothing in any of his history sheets, which surely would have warranted a mention, especially for a young man going for a commission. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not necessarily, I have the papers of a MM winner. The MM is only mentioned on his military history sheet and in a letter he wrote to asking be employed during Suez! The clerks didn’t even put letters after his name. Has anyone looked through the Gazette for his MID? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 24 October , 2005 Share Posted 24 October , 2005 The Regiment itself would have had several front line battalions, however it was discouraged to request a commission into a regiment where you had served as a ranker with the exception of 63 (RN) Div, where many officers were commissioned within their battalion. This generally worked well as commission was on ability and the individuals had proved themselves beyond doubt in front of the men they would now be commanding. In a case I looked at that referred to a soldier promoted from the ranks (albeit Public Schools Bttn, Royal Fusiliers) was given 3 choices - I think he was commissioned into his second choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_davies Posted 26 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2005 Hi Jonathan, Interesting point about the RN Division. So far I've come across one man who was commissioned into the same battalion (4th Lincs), but can imagine it would have worked well if used on a consistent basis. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 26 October , 2005 Share Posted 26 October , 2005 Jim - it certainly did happen but my experience suggests it was most definitely the exception to the rule. However it did work well in the RND but possibly a different mentality also existed within the RND - better officers from the ranks of the "Navy" than purloined from the army!! That said in 1914 several ex-army officers (particularlt from the Guards I believe) were drafted into the RND as were Indian Army officers, to provide an experienced "army" officer corps amongst the officer volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 26 October , 2005 Share Posted 26 October , 2005 Per ardua, Only two mentions of Youll in the LG, both concerning V.C. Nothing about an MID at any time. Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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