Dorsetshire Regiment Expert required...

[John_Hartley]

Dear Expert

Thanks for looking at the thread.

My researchee has a service number 3/8993. I see from the Medal Index Cards that the 3/ prefix seems to be quite common. Any idea what it signifies? Does the 4-digit service number give a clue to when he might have enlisted (he was 18 when he was KIA on 26/9/16)

Ta in advance

John

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

John;

The 3 Prefix denotes 3rd Reserve Battalion men,drafted later to Overseas Serving Battalions{Regular or Kitchener[& the occassional TF]},You find a number of Men serving in a number of Infantry Regiment Battalions,with this prefix.

I would suspect from the 8993 aspect of his number he had enlisted in 1914/15,possibly before as a Boy soldier??

The 3rd{Reserve} Bn;The Dorsetshire Regiment,were based @ Dorchester,on 4th August 1914,moving to Wyke Regis from Weymouth,in June 1915,Where it remained as part of the Portland Garrison.

[John_Hartley]

Thanks.

[SPotter]

John,

3/8993 Pte William Henry WHITE was killed in action on 26th September 1916 whilst serving in "B" Company, 5th Battalion Dorsetshire Regiment. The Battalion were this day attacking Mouquet Farm - their first action in France after transferring from Gallipoli. It was a bad affair for them, losing 122 men killed in action on that day.

He was the son of Emily Lydia White, of 5, Edge Court, Edgeley, Stockport, and the late Charles White (2419 Hampshire Regt. King's and Queen's South African Medals). He is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial. (CWGC).

He was born in Winchester, Hampshire and a resident of Edgeley, Stockport, Cheshire, but enlisted in Dorchester, Dorset. (SDGW). He was 18 years old.

It is interesting to note that he was among the very last to be allocated a 3/---- prefix number. I have been able to trace only one man with a higher number ~ 3/8996 George SMITH, who must have been an ex Regular soldier as he went to France with the 1st Bn on 23rd October 1914 and was entitled to a 1914 star. The highest intended number in the series therefore would appear to have been 3/8999.

His enlistment date is difficult to pin down. Using the War Badge Roll, which records enlistment dates, those with numbers just before his enlisted either late August 1914 or March 1915. I can only imagine that this split was due to how the available numbers were allocated to different recruiting centres in the county. However, given his age at death of 18, I would hazard the latter, but this can only be confirmed by his service papers should they have survived and an enlistment at the age of 15 or 16 is not unheard of.

His first overseas theatre was the Balkans, which he entered on 22nd September 1915 when was was among a party of approximately 78 men who joined the 5th Battn on the beaches of Gallipoli. The Battn withdrew on 21 December 1915 and went to Egypt. From here they arrived in Marseille in July 1916 and spent the rest of the war on the Western Front. However William WHITE's stay in France was destined to be a short one, being killed in their first action.

I hope at least some of this is of use to you.

Regards

Steve

[John_Hartley]

Steve

Excellent, mate. I had CWGC/SDGW stuff and the Bn history extract (can't remember who I blagged that off - was it you?), but the first theatre is new info.

Have a virtual pint on me

John

[SPotter]

John,

I remember scanning the History extract so guess it was you I sent it to. Another point of note is that there is an error in the 1914-15 Star medal roll, in that it records his death as being on 22/09/15, but this is obviously a typo on the part of the compiler, as this is actually the date of entry into his first theatre of war.

If I can be of any further help, just ask.

Steve

[PBI Friday]

Pals,

Slightly tenuous but......

I found this an interesting thread and one that caught my eye as I was trying to find out more about a very small pocket book of psalms and hymms (dated 1829 not army issue), which my granny has had since a child. My gran lived in France (near Audruic) right after the war and was given this book in about 1920/1921. On the inside cover inscribed in barely ledgible pencil is '3/7401 Nicholls'.

Granny had always assumed it used to belong to a soldier but it wasnt until the advent of the internet that I could look into it for her. Having looked a the PRO site and cwgc site, I found out there was a soldier in the Dorsetshire Regiment called Charles Nicholls with a matching service number who was killed in early 1915..... would any of you experts be able to hazard a guess as to how this poor soul met his end?

My gran is 96 (this Monday just gone) and still treasures the book even though the print is miniscule and she cant see well enough to read it anymore! We have often wondered about 3/7401 Nicholls' story.

Regards,

David.

[SPotter]

David,

You have a real treasure there, which will become apparent later. You will not be disappointed I promise you!!

3/7401 Pte Charles NICHOLLS is reported as having Died of Wounds in France and Flanders on 10th February 1915, whilst serving with the 1st Battn, Dorsetshire Regt.

His number indicates he was a Special Reservist, having enlisted into the 3rd Battn Dorsetshire Regt mid-August 1914. It was quite common for time-served Regular soldiers to re-enlist into the Special Reserve on the outbreak of war. There are two possible candidates: 3656 C.H. NICHOLLS and 5294 C. NICHOLLS. Either of these could be our man, or indeed neither. As the CWGC does not give his age it is not possible to say whether this is a possible scenario, but could be confirmed should his papers have survived and are at the NA.

What we do know is that our Charles NICHOLLS was born in St. Pancras, Middlesex and enlisted in London. He was resident in Euston Road at the time. He is buried in Dranoutre (now Dranouter) Churchyard. This is located 11.5 kilometres south of Ypres (Ieper) town centre.

The following is a transcript from the War Diary of the 1/Dorsets for the 10th February 1915.

"LINDENHOEK - WULVERGHEM

Reference OSTEND map and squared map 1/20,000

8.am

Reported to Brigade - Quiet night - approaches to trenches difficult due to lack of paths.

7.15pm

Reported to Brigade - musketry fight (could not describe firing as "sniping") continued all day, increasing in volume at dusk, and now continuing at intervals. Left of sector shelled during afternoon.

11.pm

Patrol reported hostile machine gun emplacement established in N.30.C (map 1/20,000) on IN DE KRUISSTRAAT CABARET - IN DE SPANBROCK CABARET Road at west end of cutting or 50 yds further North West. Asked that our guns shell it tomorrow

Casualties. 1 killed, 3 wounded.

Now hold your breath....

The following is the entry in CSM Ernest Shepherd's diary (published as "A SERGEANT-MAJOR'S WAR" From Hill 60 to the Somme) for the 10th February 1915. Ernest was in "B" Company.

"Stood to arms (1) at 5 a.m. One man Pte Charlie Nickells killed by sniper at 7 a.m. thro' showing over the trench. Fine morning. Enemy holding trenches 40 yds to our front. The Royal Flying Corps day out, they started at 8 a.m. and finished at dusk. Our airmen are excellent and very plucky. The German gunners planted shell all round them but, in nearly every case, they went well into the enemy country. Our gunners kept the Hun airmen back, they have not the pluck of ours. The airmen caused very heavy artillery fire from both sides making it hot for us. None of the airmen came to grief in my sight.

We, or rather a barn in our vicinity, was heavily shelled by `Big Willie'.(2) We had a very narrow escape, the barn is 50 yds to our rear, and their shooting (if the barn was really their objective) was good. We discovered the enemy in trenches facing us belong to the 16th Bavarian Reserves. No rest during the night, heavy fire and heavy rain and sleet. Owing to the heavy fire no rations could be brought up until 10 p.m.

(1) The procedure of stand-to, still used by the British Army today, was designed to guard against attack at first and last light. It also gave officers and NCOs the opportunity to check dispositions and equipment. Troops stood to arms for half an hour before first or last light until half an hour after it.

(2) A German heavy gun so called by British troops after Kaiser Wilhelm.

I really don't think there is a lot more I can tell you!

Best wishes,

Steve

[Petroc]

Just to add a bit of amateurish confirmation; a relative of mine, who survived some of the worst struggles on the Western Front in the 8th Devons and ended up a Sergeant with the MSM and an MiD, originally went overseeas in 1914 ('14 star man) with a Regular battalion of the regiment; his service number was prefixed '3/', which he retained througout, and family legend has it that he was a former soldier in civilian life on the outbreak of war....hence, '3/' represents Army Reserve?

[SPotter]

3/---- merely represents 3rd Battn Blankshires. In most cases this would be the Special Reserve. In some Regiments (King's Royal Rifles, Royal Fusiliers to name two) this woould be a Regular Battn, but on the whole it is a fair assumption that they would be SR.

Steve

[PBI Friday]

Steve,

WOW!!! Thanks for that information!! I didnt think anyone had picked-up on my comments and hadn't checked the forum for a few days... but what a response!!!

I have browsed this site many times to peruse the interesting questions and accounts from other pals about soldiers, and am aware that mentions of NCOs by name in diaries are rare!!! You are a total star for finding this info and posting it on.

While it was incredibly poignant to read the CSMs diary entry, I couldnt help but think about just how tragic and unfortunate was the manner in which Nicholls met his death; I know some people would argue that all deaths in war are equally tragic .... but being picked-off by a sniper seems particularly calculated and cold.

Reading your response also raised a number of questions for me....ones which will never be answered, but still..... Was Nicholls carrying this book when he died? Had the book bought him comfort and solace while he suffered in the trenches? I rather hope that the latter of these two can be answered in the affrimative and that this little, red, leather-bound book, which my granny has had for over 80 years, bought some degree of comfort to a man whose life was to be cut tragically short.

Thanks again for sharing you knowledge Steve... and John, sorry for hijacking the thread!!!

Many Thanks,

David.

[John_Hartley]

and John, sorry for hijacking the thread!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No worries. Your bit much more interesting than mine