Question regarding MIC notation on returned medals

[LtColSki USMC0302]

I think I know what this MIC is telling me but I figured I'd run it past the experts just to be sure I'm not missing something.

It looks to me as if the 1914 Star was issued, but the BWM and VM were returned for some reason. If someone can tell from the numbers what that reason was, I would certainly appreciate the help. I have been informed that the code may indicate they were returned for destruction.

I also do not see any notes which would indicate that the BWM and VM were re-issued. I'm obviously going to have to get a look at the medal rolls (and if anyone is going to the NA, please drop me a line )but from just the MIC, that's how it appears to me.

Am I right in this or am I mis-reading the MIC?

Regards,

~Dan

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I

I also do not see any notes which would indicate that the BWM and VM were re-issued. I'm obviously going to have to get a look at the medal rolls  but from just the MIC, 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are right,the 1914 Star was issued perhaps a year/18 months before the Pair,The BWM & Victory were returned & the Reference is basically the Records Office Audit Code,it does not give a reason,this could be one of many things,between the issue of the Star & Pair,the Recipient or NoK,may have moved,died,remarried,etc & hence the pair were undeliverable{they were sent out Registered Post so had to be signed for~No Signee~No Medals!},The audit would have ensured the Medals were retained for a period{I think around 2~3 Years},before being returned to the Royal Mint to be "Broken Up" to employ their term[ie Scrapped]

[Malcolm]

My Great Grandmother returned my Great Uncle's medals as he was kia.

The entry is;

Rtd (992 - kia - 1923) 8362 adr

You can understand it - he was her youngest son.

Aye

Malcolm

[LtColSki USMC0302]

Thanks for that, gentlemen. So would it be a reasonable assumption then that his only surviving medal in the trio would be the 1914 Star? Or would there have possibly been no notation if the medals were subsequently claimed/re-issued? I should think if he had been killed in action or died in the service that it would have been noted on the MIC. Perhaps the roll will help clarify the issue.

Cheers,

~Dan

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

would it be a reasonable assumption then that his only surviving medal in the trio would be the 1914 Star? Or would there have possibly been no notation if the medals were subsequently claimed/re-issued? I should think if he had been killed in action or died in the service that it would have been noted on the MIC. Perhaps the roll will help clarify the issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would think so,it would be unlikely that any re~issue would go unnoted as the Medal Index Card would have had to have been consulted to verify his Entitlement in the initial stages of an application.The roll may give further details {BWM/Victory}

Casualties are usually noted on the MiC; but by no means every time,have you checked your man on the CWGC Casualty site?Commonwealth War Graves Commission Site Click Here!>

[LtColSki USMC0302]

I would think so,it would be unlikely that any re~issue would go unnoted as the Medal Index Card would have had to have been consulted to verify his Entitlement in the initial stages of an application.The roll may give further details {BWM/Victory}

Casualties are usually noted on the MiC; but by no means every time,have you checked your man on the CWGC Casualty site?Commonwealth War Graves Commission Site Click Here!>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks. I did indeed check the CWGC site and could find no record of him having died. At least not in the regiment he is listed as serving in on his MIC. So unless he switched units and it went un-noted on the MIC, I can only assume that he survived the war. It is certainly possible that he died soon after the war and never claimed his claps and roses or BWM and VM. Is there any access to post Great War census data available?

Cheers,

~Dan

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Is there any access to post Great War census data available?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not @ present,a few years yet I suspect before it is released

Your best bet would be his service papers should they survive.

[LtColSki USMC0302]

Not @ present,a few years yet I suspect before it is released

Your best bet would be his service papers should they survive.

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That will certainly be my next step. I'll let you know how that turns out.

Regards,

~Dan

[rflory]

Dan: Actually what the MIC says is "Retd (1743 KR)" which means the medals were returned under Paragraph 1743 King's Regulations which states: "Medals which, at the end of 10 years, still remain unclaimed, will be sent to the India Office (if granted for Indian service) or to the deputy director of ordnance stores, Royal Dockyard (Medal Branch), Woolwich (if granted for other service) to be broken up."

Regards. Dick Flory

[LtColSki USMC0302]

Dan:  Actually what the MIC says is "Retd (1743 KR)" which means the medals were returned under Paragraph 1743 King's Regulations which states: "Medals which, at the end of 10 years, still remain unclaimed, will be sent to the India Office (if granted for Indian service) or to the deputy director of ordnance stores, Royal Dockyard (Medal Branch), Woolwich (if granted for other service) to be broken up." 

Regards.  Dick Flory

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Dick,

Thanks for the clarification. So what I should take from this is that the medals were returned to Woolwich (He was not IA) to be "broken up" and are thus non-existant? That would make the Star his only surviving "Trio" award. I'm really hoping his records survived, although I know that odds don't favor it, as I have the sense there is an interesting story here. The man in question was with the 9th Lancers, and as you can see by the MIC, went to F/F in August 1914 in time to have been with the unit during their early mounted actions.

Thanks again, to all who chipped in.

Cheers,

~Dan

[doogal]

{they were sent out Registered Post so had to be signed for~No Signee~No Medals

Hi All,

I read this thread with interest:

In my gt grandfather's service record, there is a note to say no signature had been obtained for the BWM & V medals. It is stamped at a post office. Whilst it doesn't say they were returned, neither does it say they were ever successfully delivered. It has always remained ambiguous to me what happened - ie that they were delivered without signature or returned to the office.

(there is no indication as to their initial fate on his mic as with the mic posted here.)

would this mean they were never delivered?

We know the family recieved the death plaque, as we have the scroll (but not the plaque)

regards

doogal