Regimental numbers - explanation sought

[wendus]

My apologies if this question has been asked before, and I imagine there's probably a whole page dedicated to this somewhere, but not only am I female, but I'm also fast approaching the 'elderly confused' state, too, so your help would be greatly appreciated.

My ancestor, Archibald John Cameron (Cpl, 54867), was kia in France, on 29th Nov 1917, whilst serving with the Welsh Regiment. He is included in the War Graves listings, and his details were very easy to find.

However, when I worked backwards from the given details, I found that he was formerly a Cpl with the Essex Regiment. Not only that, but he appears to have two different numbers with the Essex Regiment (Cpl 5380 and Cpl 35922).

The research isn't a problem, but I'd be grateful if someone could explain why and how a soldier can have different numbers and different regiments (you can tell I'm not military-minded, can't you!).

Many thanks.

Wendy

[John_Hartley]

Wendy

Welcome to the Forum

The simple answer to your question is that he was transferred between the different units. There are a number of reasons why this might have happened but the main are:-

- he was wounded (or ill) and out of action for a while. When recovered the new unit was more in need of replacement men that his original one.

- his unit was wound up. A goodly number were in 1918 with the men being transferred aqll over the place.

- he might have trained with one regiment and , when he arrived overseas was transferred. Again due to other units being more in need. Until recently I thought this was quite rare, but I've come across a large batch of men, local to me, who trained with the Cheshires but never saw action with them.

The above three are in order of likelihood, in my opinion.

John

[Muerrisch]

None of which answers the problem of two numbers in the same regiment. I am not an expert on the Essex, but if the man were one of 'my' boys [Royal Welch Fusiliers] I would hazard an opinion that his four-figure number was as a regular, discharged from colours and then reserve [seven and five years respectively]

pre-war, who re-enlisted mid to late 1915. An alternative would be service in the Special Reserve or Territorial Force [who had small numbers] again after commitment had ended.

To have two numbers implies a discontinuity, except those TF men who were re-numbered en masse later in the war.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

The WW1 Index cards only give the two 5 figure numbers,"54867"for the Welsh Regiment & "35922" Essex Regiment {His initial regiment} The other Number "5380" could indicate possible Regular Army service pre 1914 [ Where did this number come from?],........possibly Boer War era,which would indicate he had probably left the Essex Regiment before 1914 & re-enlisted,or was recalled from the Reserve for WW1 service,or could indicate TF service from around 1914,but suggesting a transfer before going Oveseas to a Service or Regular Bn,an indication of the source of the 5380 number may help clarify its origin!.

[wendus]

Very many thanks for your replies, I'm grateful to you.

Would it be worth my forking out £3.50 to have a look at my ancestor's medal card? I've never seen a medal card, so don't know what information they give, but this is where Archie is listed as:

Essex Regiment 35922 Corporal

Welsh Regiment 54867 Corporal

The other information came from www.military-genealogy.com where he is shown as:

16th Btn Welsh Regiment

Cpl 54867

KIA 29/11/1917

Formerly 5380 Essex Regt.

Thank you again.

W.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Would it be worth my forking out £3.50 to have a look at my ancestor's medal card?  I've never seen a medal card, so don't know what information they give, but this is where Archie is listed as:

Essex Regiment  35922  Corporal

Welsh Regiment  54867  Corporal

The other information came from www.military-genealogy.com where he is shown as:

16th Btn Welsh Regiment

Cpl 54867

KIA 29/11/1917

Formerly 5380 Essex Regt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The 5380 Number would I imagine be originally from "Soldiers Died in The Great War" listing & would then I hazard be from his initial service details on enlistment;so would suggest movement to another Battalion of the Essex R; prior to embarkation

It might be worth obtaining the Card,If he was granted a 1914 or 1914~15 Star; but if he was only awarded the BWM & Victory Medal then I suspect that very little further infomation will be obtained;apart from the Medal Roll page references [which themselves just might give an Essex Regiment Battalion Number & confirm the 5380 number]

[wendus]

Hello again.

I'm actually quite disappointed now. I paid for and received the medal card, only to find that it contained no further information at all

Archie received just the Victory and British medals.

Anyway, I'm still proud of him. He was married at 19, fathered two daughters, had three different regimental numbers, and was killed in France within a month of his 27th birthday.

My thanks again to everyone for your interest and your replies. Your responses have been very much appreciated.

Wendy