manchester regt

[bernardmcilwaine]

has any pal who is compiling data bases for a particular regt/batt come across any territorial soldiers enlisting into a pals or service batt instead of reporting to his territorial unit,i suspect i have found some amongst the 16th manchesters,one such man is r.cressy,only one man fits the bill but he was killed at gallipoli in june 1915 and came from sale,did any batts use territorial personell as instructors when they first raised the pals batts and then return them to their units,many thanks for any ideas,bernard

[Guest wrinklyone]

Sorry, Bernard, I don't know, but I bet Mike Stedman would. Doesn't he live in your area?

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Various men are reported as being called up/Volunteering for duty in the 4th TF Bn;{With a 4 figure Number},The Dorsetshire Regiment,in a 1914 edition of the Wimborne Gazette,however @ least one,10426 Pte William Henry Galpin only served Overseas with the 5th Service Battalion,this number being the only one recorded on his Index Card

[Graham Stewart]

Bernard,

Can't speak for the Manchesters, but during my own research into the Northumberland Fusiliers during the heyday of recruitment you had a variety of things going on. For instance althougth their 9th Battalion was one of the first battalions formed in September 1914, they still found themselves short of men and so around 250 men who had originally enrolled into the 16th Battalion, where transferred across and served as 'B' Coy, 9th Bn, N.F.

I also recall that on the formation of the Derby Scheme, it's intended recruits were earmarked for service as Territorial Infantry, but not due for call up until January 1916. The Tyneside Scottish Committee still required recruits to fill it's 29th(Resevre)Bn, N.F. and so placed advertisments in the local newspapers in October & November 1915 pleading with Dery Men to ask to be placed in that Battalion, although recruiting for New Army units had virtually ceased.

This same battalion even made a sweep of West Yorkshire, especially around the Huddersfield area and took large numbers of men from there, an area that was well out of it's recruiting district.

As far as recruitment occurred during this period of time, things weren't as cut and dried as they would seem. Therefore you have to read many more sources than the official sources to see what was going on behind the scenes.

Graham.

[Tony Lund]

That may explain some of the 28 Holmfirth men killed with the Northumberland Fusiliers, 10% of all local deaths.

Including 29/652 Brook Burgess.

Tony.

[John_Hartley]

Bernard

The question you ask is did any Territorials not report when they were called in August 1914 and instead waited a few weeks to join a service battalion. I suspect the answer will be generally "no". There's bound to be exceptions, of course. There may also have been Territorials who did report but who did not volunteer for overseas service - and then joined a service battalion

In terms of the Manc service battalions, I had the impression that the initial officer batch and senior NCO instructors were either regulars, retireds or reservists. But I've no real evidence to back up the presumption that they all were.

However seeing as the Manc Territorials were off to Egypt by late September 1914, I doubt whether they'd have left the good uns behind.

John

[bernardmcilwaine]

thanks folks,your combined replies have been very helpful,bernard

[Guest wrinklyone]

Mike Stedman's very worthwhile book on the Manchester Pals (2nd ed, pub Pen & Sword 2004, ISBN 1 84415 046 1, p25) says that enlistment in 1st City (aka 16th Service) Bn was strictly limited to 'men who proved themselves bona fide clerks and warehousemen from the city's central commercial district'.

Elsewhere he quotes (p28) the selection of likely NCOs by 'the chance identification of men and boys with experience in Boys Brigade, Boy Scouts, or Territorials':

'The Commissionaire asked "Any of you fellows been in the Territorials?" I said "Yes, I have." He said "You take charge of this tent."

Remembered by 6310 Sgt Bert Payne of 1 Platoon, 1st City Bn.

[bernardmcilwaine]

hiya wrinklyone,bert payne had served 4 years with the lancs fusiliers TF before the war,i have managed to dig out a few more missing pals since posting this topic,they were in the 25th manchester res batt,they were the reserves for the 16th,17th and 18th manchesters,many thanks bernard

[Graham Stewart]

Bernard,

If he served for four years before the war and didn't extend his service he would have finished on "termination of engagement" as was his right under the terms of service under Territorial Force Regulations Para 129, and so by rights was a free agent. The attachment is a Discharge Certificate of a Warwickshire Territorial who had completed such a term in February 1913.

Graham.