1/4 Camerons disbanded March 1916

[Martin Felstead]

The info that I have read is that when the 1/4 Bn Cameron Hldrs was disbanded in March 1916, the men were transferred to 1st Bn Camerons (1 Bde, 1 Div).

My g-uncle 201242 Pte A. Laing was transferred to 1/7 Bn Gordons, another Bn of 51 (highland) Div, being renumbered to 310261. I checked in the online MIC and the following also seem to have transferred likewise :-

Name Cameron Gordon

Angus Laing 201242 310261

Alexander Sim 201243 310297

Angus McLeod 201244 310247

James Stewart 201245 301298

James Reid 201248 238055

So it looks like the 1/4 Bn Camerons was broken up and not transferred en masse to 1st Bn.

[Stebie9173]

These men seem to have been in the 4th Battalion long enough to get a 6-digit number for 4th Bn. on the 1-3-1917. Perhaps they served with the 2/4th in the UK until at least mid-1917 (perhaps even until February 1918 when the 2/4th was disbanded) then to the 1/7th Gordons?

Steve.

[Martin Felstead]

Steve,

Angus Laing was KIA 23.4.1917 with 1/7 Gordons during 51HD attack on Chemical Works Roeux, Buries Brown's Copse cty.

If the six digit numbers were dished out on 1.3.17 then he MUST have been in 2/4 Camerons as you say - interesting...

I have two photos of him in uniform of Lovat Scouts (B Sdn Lochmaddy, N. Uist0 one is a dated postcard sent frm camp in 1913.

Martin

[Stebie9173]

The change in TF numbers is referenced here by forum member Jock Bruce:

http://www.tf.1914-1918.net/TF_renumbering_infantry.htm

There seem to be quite a few more of these men (50-100) in a similar situation. It would seem that they must have gone overseas whilst in the 1/4th otherwise the Camerons would not be mentioned on the MIC, then transferred to 2/4th again perhaps at the date they were disbanded, then transferred between 1-3-1917 and April 1917 in time to go overseas again in the Gordon Highlanders. Does that logic hold up?

The likelihood the is then that he had only just arrived back in France then when he was killed.

Some details of the 7th Gordons at Roeux if you need them:

The two friends mentioned would be Albert W Smith (290606, ex 3019) and Henry Gilmour (290382, ex 398).

The runner with the fags was Henry Marr (290507, ex 267117 6th Battalion). Said runner later won the MM Gazetted 12-3-1918 (290507 Pte. H. Marr, Gord. Highrs. (Echt)) - Probably at Cambrai. When I first saw he'd won the MM I thought it was for his cigarette running!

Jim Stitt's MC citation, London Gazette 18-7-1917:

2nd Lt. John Heslop Stitt, Gord. Highrs.

For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. He showed exceptional powers of leadership and initiative in taking command of two companies which had no officers left. He personally led a bombing attack, established himself in the enemy trench, and captured over 100 of the enemy and a machine gun. His energy, courage and coolness were most marked.

Steve.

[bradley]

heroes !!!!!

[Martin Felstead]

Thanks Steve - I did have some info re 7 Gdns at Roeux from Cheerful Sacrifice which came out a few years back - good diagram in there too.

If I understand you correctly you're saying that the only numbers/units recorded on the MIC are those of the soldier when he served overseas.

Therefore as he doesn't have a pre 1.3.1917 number listed he cannot have served abroad before that date.

The number 201242 proves that Angus Laing served o'seas with 4 Camerons after 1.3.1917 and as 1/4 Bn disbanded long before that his service can only have been with 2/4 Bn, probably en route to...

Xferred to 1/7 Gdns (number 301261 - a number late in the series)shortly before the battles of Arras in April. This xfer MUST have been between 1.3.1917 and 23.4.1917.

There's a lot of info in these numbers..!!

[Stebie9173]

As far as I understand it:

Any regiments/corps served in before going overseas are not listed (Lovat Scouts, in this case won't be).

Since I've seen Reserve only regiments listed on the MICs after the first Regiment, I think that ANY service, be it in the UK, the Empire at large, or in a Theatre of War, would be shown too.

From the MIC on the other Topic, Angus went overseas after 1.1.1916 with the Cameron Highlanders. (No 1915 Star)

What I'm not quite clear on is whether or not his pre-1.3.1917 would be shown on the MIC if he served overseas in the 1/4th between January 1916 and March 1916. I'm inclined to think it would.

Whichever way, he would probably have been with the 2/4th at 1.3.1917 when he was renumbered, likely in the UK.

It would be doubtful that he would have gone overseas with the 2/4th, though I don't know enough to rule it out...

Then transferred to 1/7th, as you say, shortly before Arras.

The real question is did he have a period of overseas service in early 1916? It would seem a bit odd for so many of them to go overseas and them come back again 2 or 3 months later into home units, especially as conscription was starting. But, by the same token it would also be odd to go overseas and still be in the 2/4th Camerons.

As many questions as answers in these numbers!

Steve.