Malte Znaniecki Posted 30 September , 2005 Share Posted 30 September , 2005 Pileken (Pilkem) No 1 Location: Subject: Space of time: Source: Der Weltkrieg im Bild : Frontaufnahmen aus den Archiven der Entente. - München : Verl. "Der Weltkrieg im Bild", [o. J.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malte Znaniecki Posted 30 September , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2005 No 2 Location: Subject: Space of time: Source: Der Weltkrieg im Bild : Frontaufnahmen aus den Archiven der Entente. - München : Verl. "Der Weltkrieg im Bild", [o. J.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malte Znaniecki Posted 30 September , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2005 No 3 Location: Subject: Space of time: Source: Der Weltkrieg im Bild : Frontaufnahmen aus den Archiven der Entente. - München : Verl. "Der Weltkrieg im Bild", [o. J.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malte Znaniecki Posted 30 September , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2005 Map 1 Location: Subject: Space of time: July 6th 1915 Source: Willers, Hans: Königlich Preußisches Res.-Inf.-Regiment Nr. 215 / von Hans Willers. - 1. Teil: Von der Aufstellung des Regiments bis zum Einsatz bei Wytschaete (1. September 1914 bis 10. März 1916). - Oldenburg i. O. [u. a.] : Stalling, 1926. (Erinnerungsblätter deutscher Regimenter; 160/I) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malte Znaniecki Posted 30 September , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2005 Map 2 Location: Subject: Space of time: July 8th 1915 Source: Willers, Hans: Königlich Preußisches Res.-Inf.-Regiment Nr. 215 / von Hans Willers. - 1. Teil: Von der Aufstellung des Regiments bis zum Einsatz bei Wytschaete (1. September 1914 bis 10. März 1916). - Oldenburg i. O. [u. a.] : Stalling, 1926. (Erinnerungsblätter deutscher Regimenter; 160/I) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Hello Malte, This was the crucifix that was brought by the Germans into Houthulst Forest after 2nd Battle of Ypres. See topic 'Houthulst Forest' Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malte Znaniecki Posted 24 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Hello Malte, This was the crucifix that was brought by the Germans into Houthulst Forest after 2nd Battle of Ypres. See topic 'Houthulst Forest' Regards, Cnock Sorry Cnock, it is not the same cross. I had this idea too when we had the question first time. So I took both pictures separate for comparison. The differences are clear and show that these crosses are different. See the position of the Christ's heads. Different angles. The Pilkem Christ is looking straight forward and has shorter hair, the Christ of Houthulst forest turns his longer-haired head to the right side. Even the crosses are from different made, materials and figures. Kind regards Malte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Hello Malte, Take a look at these 2 pics. The first is taken at the same location as Your post nr. 4 and the Christ has a beard and long hair. The second pic is taken at Houthulst Forest. The Christ is exactly the same as the one from Pilkem. Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Pilkem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malte Znaniecki Posted 24 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Cnock, there is no doubt, that my pic No 4 and your pic No 1 and No 3 show the same cross with the same Christ on it. This is ok. But the cross of Pilkem is different to that in Houthulst-forest cemetery. See your own picture below. and another from ebay regards Malte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Gentlemen, You are "lucky". I happen to be the author of an article I wrote 5 years ago in our local history paper De Boezingenaar about this cross. I have always thought that indeed the Pilkem Cross and the Houthulst Cross are the same. Not only because this is what is generally believed here in Boezinge (of which Pilkem is a hamlet), but also because it is said in what must be the best book ever written about the gas attack in the northern part of the Salient. (R. Baccarne and J. Steen, Boezinge 14-18 - Gasaanval - Tweede slag om Ieper ; unfortunately only in Dutch. There are not many war and pre-war photographs of the Pilkem cross. Apart from the one Malte posted, and the postcard Cnock posted, I only have one more. Poor quality however. Taken in 1915 (must have been end April - beginning of May), with a German soldier posing next to it. Frontal photo, but unfortunately more of a silhouette, and the head scarcely visible. But then - in my article - I was glad I could find reference to it in a German source : Josef Schatz, Res. Inf. Regt. 239 im Weltkrieg 1914-18, Stuttgart, 1927, pp. 44-45. It would take me a while to find the original text in German, so I will have to re-translate part of the Dutch article into English : "The crossroads at Pilkem ! When all houses were already levelled to their foundations, the cross was still intact. And when the soldiers passed along on their way to the frontline trenches, and came back, their eyes still went to this cross, even weeks after the beginning of the offensive. And every time a whisper went through the men, because the cross was still there in the middle of the destruction, undamaged. In May the cross was hit by a shell and fell over. "Domprost" Sander, divisional chaplain, had it taken behind the lines and gave it a new place near the chapel in Houthulst Forest. The 3rd Bn. was under its protection. And this whole day, for the very first day since April 22, the battalion had no casualties, as it is remarked emphatically in the war diary." So ... (Strangely enough the essence of my article 5 years ago was about the question whether the Pilkem-Houthulst cross is still the same now, at Pilkem. For there were rumours it was brought back from Houthulst to Pilkem after the war. By the way, it is not. Definitely a different one now. But as to the original Pilkem Cross and the Houthulst Cross, Malte, I'm afraid it is the same. However, this is only for the Christ himself. The cross itself (the beams) certainly is different. The Pilkem cross had round beams, with egg-shaped ornaments at the top of the vertical beam and the two ends of the horizontal beam. But the cross is the same. Though not easy to see with regard to the head, it is clear that the loin cloth is the same. (I'll see if I can find the photo I referred to in the beginning of my posting (the cross as a silhouette), and scan and post it.) Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Aurel, Thank You for the explanation. I was sure it was the same Christ, except for the cross of course. Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Cnock, Malte, I told you, only a shadow, a silhouet. And the head is hardly visible, but focus on the loin cloth. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 By the way, I forgot ... Is this man leaning on the ground near the foot of the cross German or British ? (I'm not so good at uniforms.) If he is British we may have a problem... (But at the bottom of my photo (but not on the extract I posted) I read : Kreuz von Pilkem. So he must be German of course. Is he ?) Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malte Znaniecki Posted 24 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Aurel and Cnock, thank you very much. I am much wiser now from your help. So it's all about the CHRIST and not about the CROSS. The Christ was taken off the Pilkem Cross in 1915 and (for heaven's sake !) "nailed" again in 1915 - 1916 by the Germans. And (presumably after the War) later on the Christ with his HOUTHULST new cross disappeared forever since the Christ of Pilkem today isn't the Christ of April 22nd 1915. This is worth to be researched ! Malte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malte Znaniecki Posted 24 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Cnock, Malte, I told you, only a shadow, a silhouet. And the head is hardly visible, but focus on the loin cloth. Aurel Aurel, it's a German NCO we see on your picture in comfortable position. Best from Hamburg Malte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Malte, A German NCO ! What a relief ! Otherwise history (more specifically of the Gas Attack) would have to be rewritten ! And your conclusions were right. The Germans did re-nail Christ on the cross again. (I don't know, in these times of respect for all religions, if everybody finds this amusing, but I did ! And fortunately it was you who said that, not me ! What happened later to the cross + Christ, I suppose nobody has any idea. Certainly not back to Pilkem. I could post a photo of the post-war Pilkem Christ, but it is very clear : a different one. (The post-war Pilkem Christ looks up, sideways.) Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 What happened later to the cross + Christ, I suppose nobody has any idea. Certainly not back to Pilkem. I could post a photo of the post-war Pilkem Christ, but it is very clear : a different one. (The post-war Pilkem Christ looks up, sideways.) Aurel Of course the Belgians disposed of Christ. They would never accept a German "re-nailed" statue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Hello Aurel, Could it have been destroyed during the later shelling and fighting around Houthulst Forest? Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Cnock, Simply no idea. This is even the first time that someone (or me) wonders what happened to the cross later. I'll ask someone who might know (J. Steen, the author of the book I mentioned.) Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malte Znaniecki Posted 1 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2006 No 11 Location: Subject: Space of time: Source: Holste, Walter: Das Reserve-Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 23 / von Leutnant d. R. Walter Holste. - Hildesheim : Lax, 1934. (Goslarer Jäger im Weltkriege ; 3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malte Znaniecki Posted 1 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2006 No 12 Location: Subject: Space of time: Source: Holste, Walter: Das Reserve-Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 23 / von Leutnant d. R. Walter Holste. - Hildesheim : Lax, 1934. (Goslarer Jäger im Weltkriege ; 3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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