Bruce Dennis Posted 28 September , 2005 Share Posted 28 September , 2005 Hello everyone. "The Suvla Bay Landing" and "At Suvla Bay" by John Hargrave. Does anyone know how accurate/reliable these books are? Thanks in advance, Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 28 September , 2005 Share Posted 28 September , 2005 At Suvla bay was written shortly after the events it describes and is a personal account of the authors experiences in a Field Ambulance Unit. It is a good read and is certainly not "inaccurate" but may perhaps suffer from a degree of interpretation of events and focus on the author's unit. None the less it is a reasonably good personal account written for publication at the time and better than many. The Suvla Bay Landings was written almost half a century later and is the work of a more mature author (well, he was almost 50 years older by then) but again one who experienced the campaign and knew the ground. It was published in 1964 and like many books of the sixties it is now a little dated, reflecting that some material was not available to authors in the way it is today. It is, however, a reasonably good account of the Suvla Bay Campaign and well worth reading before delving into more detailed accounts such as the official history and unit histories, together with other recent histories such as Hart & Steel's "Defeat at Gallipoli" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Dennis Posted 28 September , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2005 Thank you, Martin. "A degree of interpretation" is no problem, but I am wary of flights of fancy in descriptions of places and units involved. Having wasted a lot of time and made a fool of myself for believing some heroic garbage once, I now have a policy of asking "...does anyone know...". Regards to all, Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 28 September , 2005 Share Posted 28 September , 2005 Bruce, Bear in mind if you are looking to buy that original copies of "The Suvla BaY Landings typically sell for £20 - £35 and original copies of "At Suvla Bay" typically sell for £50 - £80, though they have been seen for less. They are both well worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Dennis Posted 28 September , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2005 Any coverage of the naval side of the action? Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_armstrong Posted 28 September , 2005 Share Posted 28 September , 2005 I read "The Suvla Bay Landing" a few months ago, and I did find parts of it a little suspect. I am in no position to question the historical facts of the finer points of it, but the bit that really made me look at it differently was a section that describes how at some point during their training Kitchener comes to inspect them. From memory (as it was a library copy), there's a slightly hammy bit about K commenting on the field ambulance not having rifles, but then there is a section where the author comes face to face with him on his charger, and there is a very novelistic moment of him looking into K's eyes and being terrified because he saw... nothing. It's nicely written, but I couldn't really take the rest of the book that seriously as a historical document from then on, although I did find it very enjoyable. It just seemed to staged; too after-the-fact. All IMHO, of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Dennis Posted 29 September , 2005 Author Share Posted 29 September , 2005 Thank you, Jon, you have helped. Hargrave turned his hand to fiction as well as the books on Suvla Bay. I suppose we can hardly criticize him for having an eloquent streak, but this is what I am looking to find out about any author whose work is unfamiliar to me: is he/she a careful writer or a colourful one? It sounds like a worthwhile read, so I will do as we all do and tread carefully. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 29 September , 2005 Share Posted 29 September , 2005 The Naval side of the Gallipoli Campaign is not brilliantly covered. There is the Naval Official History and Keyes Memoirs (the latter is well worth while tracking down. I think there is also a version of Keyes memoirs which is just about the naval side of Gallipoli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Dennis Posted 1 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 1 October , 2005 Martin, "The Fight for Gallipoli", Admiral of the Fleet Sir Roger Keyes, is constantly on my desk. I recommend it to anyone with an interest in the Aegean area fighting, whether on land or sea. I agree that the coverage given to the naval side is sparse, so I have decided to bite the bullet and write a book about the naval campaign in the Aegean. Most of what I am learning about that theatre now is coming from obscure memoirs or deep digging at Kew, so please, anyone with reading list/suggestions feel free to tell me. I am slightly intimidated by the thought that two years research could be wasted because I didn't know about a particular reference, so all comments and suggestions will be treated seriously (keep it clean, lads). Thanks in advance to anyone who takes pity on a head-clogged amateur researcher, Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMHart Posted 2 October , 2005 Share Posted 2 October , 2005 Hi, Just looking at the shelves you will probably have already tried: With the Fleet in the Dardanelles, William Price, London, Andrew Melrose Ltd, ??? Dardanelles: A Midshipman's Diary, H. M. Denham, London, John Murray, 1981 From Dartmouth to the Dardanelles: A Midshipman's Log, Anon, London, William Heinemann, 1916 The Immortal Gamble, A T Stewart, London, A & C Blacl Ltd, 1917 The Navy in the Dardanelles Campaign, Lord Wester-Wemyss, London, Hodder & Stoughton. ??? Diary of HMS Queen Elizabeth January to May 1915, Anon, 1919 Gallipoli, Eric Bush, London, George Allen & unwin Ltd, 1975 All the many books on the Goeben & Breslau Several interviews at the Sound Archive, Imperial War Museum, 0207 416 5363. Most authors are too lazy to use oral history, not because it's unreliable - (it can be but sometimes so are letters, diaries, official reports etc. etc.) - but because they're bone idle and it's hard work listening to hours of old men rambling on for those absolute nuggets buried within!!!! Cheers, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Dennis Posted 3 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2005 Thanks Pete, three of the titles you mentioned are already on my wish list, so it is good to see that they receive your recommendation (From Dartmouth to the Dardanelles: A Midshipman's Log, The Immortal Gamble, Diary of HMS Queen Elizabeth January to May 1915). I haven't approached the IWM about their sound archives yet but was saving that for a winter project. Having looked out the window, perhaps the time has come... Regards, Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 4 October , 2005 Share Posted 4 October , 2005 At Suvla Bay can be read online at several sites. Just Google "Suvla Hargrave" and it will turn up several options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMHart Posted 5 October , 2005 Share Posted 5 October , 2005 Sorry Bruce, In my parochial haste I forgot to mention that even more naval stuff is avaialble at the IWM Department of Documents. Rod Suddaby the Keeper is the expert on First World War naval. Tony Richards is very helpful - he's on 0207 415 5223 I think! Best of luck! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMHart Posted 5 October , 2005 Share Posted 5 October , 2005 Whoops 0207 416 5223 is Tony Richards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Dennis Posted 5 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2005 Pete, many thanks for the info on who to speak to. I was actually in the middle of writing a "Dear Sir" letter to them when I read your posting, so good timing there. I recently met Alan Wakefield from the IWM and planned on bending his ear about my project, so I will let you know how it works out. Greenwoodman, what a good idea! Thanks! Regards to all, Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 5 October , 2005 Share Posted 5 October , 2005 How amusing to see Tony and Alan mentioned in the same thread on Gallipoli - they are 50% of the Salonika Campaign Society Committee ...... By the way, congrats to Tony on celebrating his 1st Wedding Anniversary in the last few days. Geoffrey Miller has also authored a trio of books currently in print but also available to read online. They include Superior Force (The Goeben & Breslau) Superior The other books are linked from the other books tab. Volume I: Superior Force : the conspiracy behind the escape of Goeben and Breslau Volume II: Straits : British Policy towards the Ottoman Empire and the Origins of the Dardanelles Campaign Volume III: The Millstone : British Naval Policy in the Mediterranean, 1900 - 1914, the Commitment to France and British Intervention in the War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Dennis Posted 5 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2005 Martin, Thanks for that, you have got exactly the right idea of what I am looking for. I am partway through The Millstone at the moment. This covers much of what I am looking into, but in far greater depth than I had hoped to achieve. It seems that I had a problem taking online books seriously, but Millstone changed that. Geoffrey Miller deserves praise for these works. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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