HMS Cruiser and HMS Dido

[Sandra Parker]

I've been seeking, and finding, information about most ships my G Uncle served on, but 2 have proved very difficult for me. They are:

HMS Cruiser, on Matthew Brownfield's Service record as having served on her as a lad and I have found a reference to Vice Admiral Sir David Beatty (1871-1936.)

serving on her in 1888.

and HMS Dido. where he served 29th November 1916 to 28th February 1919. The only records I can find of the Dido, refer to a much later ship.

Maybe I'm not looking in the right places, could someone steer me in the right direction?

I really appreciate the great support from this forum.

Sandra

[Peter Beckett]

Sandra,

Try this url

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/ecli....htm#HMS%20Dido

Peter

[Michael Lowrey]

As Peter indicated, Dido was an Eclipse class cruiser. Conway's notes she was assigned to the 6th Submarine Flotilla from August 1912 and then the 3rd Submarine Flotilla from early 1914. In 1916, she became depot ship to the 10th Destroyer Flotilla.

As for the other vessel, could it be Cruizer, a screw sloop of 1073 tons and 17 guns launched in 1852? She wasn't sold in 1912, so likely would have been used for some sort of training function for a number of years (decades) before being disposed of.

Best wishes,

Michael

[Sandra Parker]

Thank you very much Peter and Michael.

Re: HMS Cruiser, the record shows Cruiser 16/983. I 'm not sure if that helps clarify anything. Matthew Brownfield was on board as an ordinary seaman on 15th Sept 1898, AB on 16th October 1898 and rejoined the Hood as an AB on 16th November 1898.

Sandra

[Malcolm]

HMS CRUISER, 98 ton Screw Tug launched 1874 used in harbour service from 8th July 1917 to 1st September 1919.

Aye

Malcolm

[Sandra Parker]

Thanks Malcolm,

I now have details of every ship on his service record, except for one which is written right across the page, not in any of the columns.

It fits after the Hyacinth to Oct 1900 and "Shore By Purchase" and a line across page.

As best I can reproduce it is:

Ch. 180 158 William Henry Dampier P/C 104499. There do not appear to be any dates associated with this entry.

The next entry in correct columns, in Pembroke 14th September 1916 - I'm ok after that.

Any ideas?

Really appreciate the time and expertise of forum members, couldn't have got anywhere otherwise.

Sandra

[historydavid]

Sandra, the phrase "Shore by Purchase" and the gap in the dates makes me wonder if he bought himself out of the navy in Oct 1900 and then rejoined on 14 Sept 1916.

Hope this helps

David

[Sandra Parker]

Thanks David.

He was 2nd mate on the Nubia for the 1901 census. To add to the confusion, Matthew James Brownfield joined crew of commissioned merchant ship STEPHEN FURNESS on 12 December 1914 and was commissioned as a Temporary S/LT, RNR on 14 Dec 14.

As far as I know, he continued at sea until his retirement as 'Captain' in the mid 1930's. there is a record, by Kent police, of his masters papers being stolen in 1953. The DOB and place of birth at Gravesend is consistant in all records I've found.

So where was he between 1901 and 1915? and after 9th April 1919?

The more I find out, it seems the more there is to find out.

Sandra

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Sandra

Matthew James BROWNFIELD left the Royal Navy in October 1900 and the line across the page ends his record. The entries below that line are for a completely different man WH Dampier and are the continuation of that man’s record; the Navy often recycled service register pages in this way.

MJ BROWNFIELD then seems to have had a very good offer and joined the Merchant Navy: second mate is a ships officer and a big step up from an AB (Able Seaman). The ranks of Merchant Navy were less constrained by the class structure than the RN. I have found a P&O ship Nubia for circa 1901, but you will need to check the ‘Lloyds Register’ or 'Mercantile Marine List' to find if there were others registered at the time. Between 1901 and 1914 and after 1919 he is likely to have been regularly at sea. At some point he became a mate and got his Masters Ticket, which was stolen in 1953.

I recommend K. Smith, MJ Watts and CT Watts’ book 'Records of Merchant Shipping & Seamen,' published by PRO, 1998 or Christopher T and Michael J Watts, 'My Ancestor Was a Merchant Seaman' (Society of Genealogists, 2nd edition with addendum, 2004) for some pointers for more research. Or download the relevant research leaflets on the NA web site. Such as Merchant Seamen: Officers' Service Records 1845-1965

Btw what you have found doesn’t rule out his involvement in the Boer War, but helping in the provision of transport, rather that in the fighting. Every soldier and piece of kit crossed the sea at some stage to get there, if not back!

Fred

[Sandra Parker]

Wow, no wonder I was confused. I figured that each person got his own page, never dreamt of someone else having the same page. Just shows I've got a lot to learn!

Although I am still confused by the clothing and bedding gratuities reference at the bottom of the page if they are for Matthew Brownfield.

10/- for raising ? Pembroke and 18 pounds paid for the ??? Hyacinth September 1900 (which is before he actually left the Hyacinth.)

Also 'pensioned from 15-6-18 per September hedge'

Thank you so much for clearing up at least some of my puzzle. I will head off on merchant shipping line and see how I go getting hold of the publications you recommend.

Sandra

[Guest wrighty]

Hope this is the same one.

HMS DIDO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

built by London & Glasgow Eng & Iron Shipbuilding Co,

Yard No 283

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Propulsion: steam, 19 knots

Launched: Friday, 20 March 1896

Built: 1896

Ship Type: 2nd Class Cruiser

Tonnage: 5600 (DISPL)?

Length: 364 feet

Owner History:

Royal Navy

Status: Scrapped - 1926 Maldon

Remarks: A ship of particularly smart appearance, she would often steam round the fleet when they were at anchor to show off how good she looked. This led to a naval term "Cutting a Dido"

meaning to do something extraordinary

[Malcolm]

Dittmar and Colledge agrees with your post

gives in addition.

Eclipse Class, 2nd Class Cruiser.

Armament reduced to 3 x 6 inch, 5 x 12 pounder, 1 x 3 pounder AA in 1916 reduced to 1 x 3 pounder AA in 1917.

Ex - Cruiser completed as a Depot Ship in 1913. Served as such 3rd Destroyer Flotilla (DF) 1914, 3rd DF at Harwich 1914-1915, 9th DF at Harwich 1915-1917, 10th DF at Harwich 1918.

Aye

Malcolm

[Sandra Parker]

Thanks Wrighty and Malcolm for your interest.

However it seems that I was presumptive when I got his naval service record and went heading happily off into unchartered waters!

If you look at his record, (see attachment), and 'per ardua per mare per terram's' comments, you'll see how I got confused. Seems my GUncle headed off into the commercial world of the merchant navy, and Seaman Dampier was the chap on the Dido.

Sorry to have misled anyone, I'm a bit of a novice at these records and things, but I'm improving - I hope!

Sandra

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Click on the underlined part of my previous post, that links to one of several research leaflets by the National Archives on merchant seamen, you are only interested in the sections dealing with officers and there is more information available for them.

Sorry I can’t help much with the bedding gratuities, but could you provide an enlargement of that section?

[Sandra Parker]

Thanks for that. attached is the best I can get, so hopefully it may give some further clue.

Will follow up on your advice.

Thanks

Sandra

[FAAAEd]

HMS CRUISER, 98 ton Screw Tug launched 1874 used in harbour service from 8th July 1917 to 1st September 1919.

Aye

Malcolm

Having only recently discovered this excellent forum I apologise for my late input on this but I feel it necessary to correct that identification of HMS Cruiser. This ship was in fact a 960 ton wood screw sloop built as HMS Cruizer at Deptford in 1852. Listed as HMS Cruiser from 1857 and renamed Lark as a sail training ship in 1893. Sold in Malta 1912.

To muddy the waters (excuse pun) another vessel, HMS Kingfisher a composite (wood on iron frame) screw sloop of 1130 tons was built in 1879 at Sheerness, renamed HMS Lark as a training ship in 1892 and then HMS Cruizer in 1893. Sold 1919.

Source, 'Ships of the Royal Navy: the Complete Record of All Fighting Ships of the Royal Navy From the Fifteenth Century to the Present', J.J. Colledge and revised 2003 by Lt. Cdr. Ben Warlow.

I seem to recall seeing a picture of the 1852 HMS Cruiser (as Cruizer presumably) depicting her serving in the Baltic during the war of Britain and France against Russia, otherwise known as the Crimean War, in one of Colin White's books.