Cap Badges

[Guest Lyndsey]

I inherited some photo's of my Grandfather Frederick James Lenton (1896-1929), whom I never knew, and have just begun to research my family history, so am looking at everything in a new light!

In some photo's his cap badge identifies him (so I have been told) as being in The Royal Fusiliers and others as being in The Grenadier Guards. How can this be?

If it helps one of the photo's has "North Russia, 26/11/1918 written on the back.

Many thanks

Lyndsey

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I inherited some photo's of my Grandfather Frederick James Lenton (1896-1929),  

In some photo's his cap badge identifies him (so I have been told) as being in The Royal Fusiliers and others as being in The Grenadier Guards. How can this be?

If it helps one of the photo's has "North Russia, 26/11/1918  on the back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lyndsey,Welcome to the Forum & Congratulations on your First Post!

A quick search of the Medal Index cards @ the NA Online only shows one Frederick J,Lenton; as being LONDON Regiment;[the 1st 4 Battalions of which wore the Royal Fusiliers Cap badge];During this period they did on ocasion wear a badge with a Squatter variation the Grenade "Flames" being shorter,which in a photo could be mistaken for Grenadier Guards;if you could post JPGs or Scans of these photos here it would help.

The RF did send Men to NREF

Also he may have served Prewar in the Guards,it is a possibility.

[Guest Lyndsey]

Many thanks for your welcome and information.

I do not have the facilities at home to post images and sites such as these are barred at work!

However, if you would be kind enough to e-mail me your e-mail address I can send them to you that way. My e-mail address is: lyndsey.besemer@ntlworld.com

With thanks

Lyndsey

[Steven Broomfield]

I do not have the facilities at home to post images and sites such as these are barred at work!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Outrageous!

[Staffsyeoman]

Here's the badge of the Royal Fusiliers; the flames rise much more to a point than the Grenadier Guards. They sent sent two battalions to Russia, the 45th and 46th. These were 'special' battalions comprised mainly of volunteers. In fact, both contained considerable numbers of Australians who returned to the UK, demobilised themselvs from the AIF and rejoined for service in Russia. Two were awarded VCs with the Royal Fusiliers.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

This is the Royal Fusiliers/1st~4th London Regiment;variant I was explaining about,it has a more "Grenadiers" like Flame & a Tudor Crown,so in a photo could be mistaken for other "Grenade" badges.

[Guest Lyndsey]

Thanks for the picture Phil. I personally don't think that the cap badge in the picture you sent looks like either of the one on my Grandfather's cap, but it was a chap from the National Archives who told me it was the Royal Fusiliers/Grenadier Guards - the plot thickens!

Lyndsey

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Hi Lyndsey

Thanks for the Scans herewith posted on your behalf.

The Two Men in the 1st Photo are wearing:

a}7th City Of London Battalion[shiny Seventh] The London Regiment TF

A Grenade with the Number "7" on the Ball: HQ @ Finsbury.

b} 10th CountyOf London Battalion {Hackney Rifles} The London Regiment TF

The Chap in the single photo is wearing the Royal Fusiliers [or 1st to 4th Bns City Of London Battalions {The Royal Fusiliers} TF],He is the same man as in photo 1{a} wearing 7th Bn Badge,suggesting a posting to the RF or one of the 1st Four City Battalions

[Guest Lyndsey]

Many thanks to you Harry for all your help.

I have taken some time to look through other posts regarding the Royal Fusiliers and all this talk of Divisions, Battalions, Brigades and Regiments has got me thoroughly confused!

How can I confirm that the FREDERICK JAMES LENTON mentioned earlier in 'Post 2' is, in fact, my Grandfather, whose cap badge Harry identified from the photographs in 'Post 8'?

Also, what do I do next to find out more about my Grandfather's army days?

Regards

Lyndsey

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

.......all this talk of Divisions, Battalions, Brigades and Regiments has got me thoroughly confused!

How can I confirm that the FREDERICK JAMES LENTON mentioned earlier in 'Post 2' is, in fact, my Grandfather, whose cap badge Harry identified from the photographs in 'Post 8'?

Also, what do I do next to find out more about my Grandfather's army days?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Blind 'em with "Science!"............You will soon be conversant with the Terminology....Give it a month or two....!;basically a Division is made up of Brigades,A Brigade is composed of various Battalions of Regiments,which are themselves Components of a Regiment,A Regiment being a County or Similarly based Unit;Easy Innit??[A Thorough Read of the Long Long Trail @ the Head Of The Forum Should Help in your Understanding~Though May Leave Your Head Spinning @ First!]

The Frederick J.Lenton in my initial post is the ONLY F.J.Lenton who served in the London Regiment{Any Battalion} so barring a miracle he has to be the F.J.Lenton in your Photos who is wearing London Rgt/RF Cap Badges,confirming it absolutely will require obtaining his Army Service Record{If it Survives} from the National Archive[Not available on line but by direct access @ the NA Kew[in person or using a researcher] this will give you his address D.o.B;Next of Kin & other information which will confirm his relationship{or not as the case may be}:To do this you will need the Regiments/Numbers/Names you now have as well as info from the Medal Index Card which may help.

The Local library where he used to live during WW1 should have WW1 era Local Papers on Microfiche,etc; which often have details of Soldiers Movements,Promotions,Awards,Woundings,Etc & are always worth a look @ although it can be a drawn out process if you have no particular date{s} to work on,With FJL,as he served in Russia after the Armistice of 11.11.1918;that might be a good place to start & work backwards,from the 1920{ish} dateline when the NREF returned home,the easy bit is done now it gets harder!