Scuttling of German Fleet

[healdav]

During the scuttling of the German fleet some men died, inevitably, but apparently five men were shot by men of the RN.

Does anyone know what the rationale behind their action was? All the accounts I have seen just say that they were shot, without any further explanation.

[Tony Lund]

I don’t know anything for certain, but I read somewhere that the Germans were fired on in an attempt to force them back to their ships. Presumably to try to stop the scuttling of the fleet. If this is true they would have been in their boats when fired upon.

Tony.

[chrisharley9]

As the scuttling was an act of war in defiance of the Armistice the Royal Navy were justified in attempting to force the German seaman back to their ships - however did they have to fire on them. I'm not even going to start judging by todays standards

All The Best

Chris

[egbert]

As the scuttling was an act of war in defiance of the Armistice the Royal Navy were justified in attempting to force the German seaman back to their ships - however did they have to fire on them. I'm not even going to start judging by todays standards

All The Best

Chris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Totally disagree: the Geneva convention forbids shooting on sailors, saving themselves from sinking ships - even when sunk deliberately by their own crew

[chrisharley9]

Before I comment any further I will have to lay my hands on the book about the scuttling which goes in to great detail into the shootings

All The Best

Chris

[healdav]

This question came up on another forum yesterday and this was the reply sent by a member:

The problem was that Admiral von Reuter had access only to four day old newspapers and did not realise that the Armistice had not expired but had been extended. He believed therefore that, as Germany had refused the Peace terms (as far as he knew) that the Armistice had expired and that war had been resumed! Accordingly he ordered the Fleet to be scuttled but Schubert and Langhorne-Gibson point out that the scuttling was technically an Act of War as the Armistice still had two days to run.

Nine German interned sailors were shot on 21st June 1919. The graves of eight are still at Lyness. Sixteen were wounded. Van der Vat stated that one man was shot when in a life-boat under tow by a British destroyer. He was attempting to cut the tow rope. Five of the dead were killed when the British fired at life-boats when the Germans abandoned ship. Another death occurred when a sailor refused to obey a British order. The Captain of SMS Markgraf, Lt. Cdr. Walter Schumann was shot through the head as he emerged from the engine room waving a white flag, and so was a Chief Petty officer. Schubert and Langhorne-Gibson say two Petty officers which brings the number dead to nine.

Some British destroyers fired salvos at the German Fleet but failed to hit any ship and Captain McLean, the destroyer Flotilla leader threatened summary execution for any German Commander who sank his ship (but failed to carry out his threat).

The German crews were treated as Prisoners of War and some were treated most harshly, being forced to remain confined in their wet clothes. Others were attacked by a group of local women armed with pitchforks and agricultural tools when they were ill-advised enough to land on a beach on the Island of Cava! According to Schubert and Langhorne-Gibson, some sailors were locked in the engine room of a sinking destroyer and told either to stop the scuttling or drown. Apparently their ship did not sink!

After the scuttle, the POWs were taken to the mainland and kept in POW camps until Peace was eventually ratified.

As far as I can tell, because von Reuter had acted incorrectly by sinking his ships when the Armistice was still in force, no criminal charges were laid against the British for shooting at the internees. Von Reuter expected to be put on trial but was not and Van der Vat says that this may be because the British did not wish to expose the fact that they had failed to prevent the loss of ships and that "There was always the possibility that a court might be driven to conclude that Germany was not responsible for von Reuter's decision, which would make it harder for the Allies to press for reparations".