Confused with MIC card

[Drake]

Hi this is possibly my Great Great grandfather Benjamin Maguires MIC card. I have been trying to find out what happened to him so I thought checking his MIC card could give me some info to see what part of the South lancashire regiment he was in as we cant find him on the commonwealth casualty list.

heres his card

I have a few questions I've checked the long trail website but havent found my answers on there

basically im unsure of his which part of the South lancashire regiment he was part of is it 4 or 41 battalion

and what does the number 372 mean

or the regiment number 17

im abit confused at all the numbers

I dont really now much about all this ive tried to comprehend it on the long trail but its not going in and im feeling more confussed could some one point me in the right direction of what all this means hopefully this will help in searching him out at

Thank you

[CROONAERT]

he was a member of the 4th battalion (TF). The SLR didn't have a 41st Bn. 372 is the number of the Army Order stating his qualification of the TFE medal. He had regimental number 71 (which would have changed to a 6 digit TF number in 1917 if he was still in the same unit).

Dave.

[CROONAERT]

his qualification of the TFE medal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Basically, to qualify for the TFE (Territorial Force Efficiency medal), he had to have completed 12 years service in the territorials.

Dave.

PS. the 4th South Lancs were a Territorial battalion based in Warrington ("A" through to "D" Companies in Warrington along with "F" and "H" Coys. "E" Coy and "G" Coy were based in Newton le Willows.)

[Drake]

thank you soo much makes sence now he came from Warrington

thank you for youre help

[Drake]

could i just ask on the long trail it mentions the 1/4 but not the 4th is it the same thing or did they mix battalions

sorry if this is a really silly question bit new to all this

[Stebie9173]

The 4th Battalion was a Territorial Battalion, at first on duty in England. When these TF battalions went abroad (either to replace the Regulars in other parts of the Empire, or to go to the Front) new battalions were raised. The original 4th Battalion became known as the 1st 4th or 1/4th and the new "second line" battalion became the 2nd 4th or 2/4th.

Confused? I was....

By the way, Have you downloaded BOTH of Benjamin Maguire's MICs? The non TFEM card (Benjamin rather than "B") would contain the details of his service and they often mentioned dates of death, or at least that he died.

Steve.

[Drake]

Thanks for youre reply you were right thank you means alot to my family

at last we found him and what happened although in away its quite distressing even though i never knew him but at least we found him i shall be reseaching more into it I want to find out where he is

ive just downloaded it more confusion

we were told he died in the war

maybe it was from injuries he had during the war

im now intrigued what does the

action taken list T.H 569 mean

thank you for the 4th battalion clear up is very confusing think i got it now cheers

[Stebie9173]

This is a SWB (Silver War Badge) card.

These were given to men discharged from the Army under King's Regulations No. 392 Paragraph XVI as no longer fit for duty.

The Badge was partially a mark that you weren't "shirking your duty"

Obviously from sickness. It also states the date that he was discharged 5-12-1916, and that he enlisted on 3-4-1908 so should have seen just over 2 years of the War.

The List reference is for his SWB and refers to the Medals rolls.

This is STILL not his Campaign Medals card!!

I'll get searching...

I take it that this was the card that Stephen Nulty pointed out.

Steve.

[Drake]

hi thanks for youre info stebie

these two cards are on the A2A online the £3.50 ones i persumed they where the medal cards

thanks for looking i appreciate it

[Stebie9173]

Working on the basis that Maguire was spelt correctly....

There are no more South Lancs Benjamin or B Maguires.

He possibly, then could have re-enlisted.

We have three possibilities:

Medal card of Maguire, Benjamin

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Engineers 301136 Private

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=2

Medal card of Maguire, B H

Corps Regiment No Rank

Labour Corps Western Command 636924 Private

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...&resultcount=12

Medal card of Maguire, B

Corps Regiment No Rank

King's Own Royal Lancaster Regiment 3478 Private

Royal Defence Corps 93193 Private

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...&resultcount=12

Now, I know little about the Royal Lancaster numbers but I would have thought that he would be unlikely to have this low a number and be rejoining after December 1916.

The Labour Corps number seems late War.

The RE number was, I think, allocated some time from 1917 onwards.

The LC & RE men are therefore possibles.

Not sure whether this helps, really.

Steve.

[Drake]

Thank you for searching , it all helps

i had very little to go on before i came on this website now i feel ive got some things to look into and much more knowledge about him then i had

long way to go yet but im sure i'll get there in the end

is there any way i could connect the other people to him ie would there be anything on the cards that could help me to know it is him

would it mention anything form his previous cards or numbers on there

[Stebie9173]

Occasionally, yes, there were some cross references to other cards.

Though, at the moment these 3 cards are assuming he rejoined under the same name, which was accurately recorded. A fairly big assumption.

My gut says the RE man, but we're getting to the point where we can fly off in all different directions to no effect (apert from spending money unnecessarily).

Have you considered checking whether his Sevice Record survives at Kew? About 30% of them are still available.

The other possibility is to check the Absent Voter List for the election of 1918. If he had rejoined then he may be listed on the Warrington list.

Steve.

[Drake]

Think i shall try and take in what i know now and then see what the next steps are

like you said he may not of ever gone back or he could of even died after the sickness depending on what it was so will have a discuss with dad and talk through what ive learnt and what to do next.

thanks for the leads i'll check them out i shall find out what happned in the end just needs a bit more research

cheers for all youre help stebie and everyone else

[Drake]

I just found out the R E Soldier was on the same page as the Kings royal one i downloaded earlier

RE soldier

cant see anything on it apart form the name being right that could possitively match it to mine except the dates could work out possibly

This is the Kings Royal lancaster soldier

this soldier has a star medal listed which mine had which i persume means he had rejoined so thats possible but like you said about the numbers and there must be loads of benjamin maguires and other things dont add up

the B.H maguire i dont think he had a middle name but that could be possible too i suppose he could of rejoined but like you say lot of speculation

one thing i did notice is that he seems to have been demoted the first card says his a sgt the seconed one with the dischrge for sickness has him down as a private

[Stebie9173]

Still no Victory Medal and/or British War Medal.

RE man is another SWB. The enlistment dates can possibly fit. All we can say is that it cannot be ruled out yet and it MIGHT be him....

The KORL man seems to have a pre-war number in a pre-war battalion. 1914-15 Star, but no VM &BWM... On balance I would say not him, but well...

Steve.