Pte. Donald Ellis 20541 KOSB's

[Mike C]

It's possible that this gent and my Grandad (Pte. John McCAllum 18th Bn. CEF) met up during Aug. 1918. Grandad was KIA on Aug. 26, 1918 near Arras. I have a wallet that he carried that has written on the inside "Maker D.P. Ellis 7/8 KOSB Villars Sir Simon". Pte. Donald Ellis 20541 is the only Ellis from the KOSB's that I have been directed to. I contacted the KOSB's regimental museum and they were only able to tell me that he must have survived the war as he was not on their Roll of Honor. I have no idea how to look up information in the British archives. Living in New Mexico, USA, doesn't help any!

Thanks for any help.

Mike C

[Stephen Nulty]

Mike

The Medal Index Card for Donald Ellis, No 20541 KOSB, can be downloaded from here for £3.50

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=9

I'm not sure exactly what you want to know, but the MIC is usually a good starting point for any search.

[Tony Lund]

Canadian Archives.

Also not sure of the question, but there are 36 Canadian John McCAllum's here, each with a date of birth to help sort them out.

Tony.

[PPCLI]

I'm not sure exactly what you want to know, but the MIC is usually a good starting point for any search.

Mike wants to find out out if Pte. Donald Ellis, 20541, KOSB, is the same man as "Maker D.P. Ellis 7/8 KOSB Villars Sir Simon". Ellis 20541 is the only possible D. Ellis with the KOSB according to the MICs.

Mike, to confirm that he is the correct man you will need someone to get the information at the National Archives at Kew - unless you are very lucky and the online MIC actually gives his battalion number(s).

From the MIC there is a code for his medal entitlement; using this code will lead to the correct volume and page of the KOSB Meda Rolls. His entry will list his battalion (or battalions if he was transferred within the KOSB). If someone is at Kew this would be a half hour job (including the 20-25mins waiting for the medal roll volume to arrive). The only real snag is that you can only do this onsite. Perhaps someone from the forum who reads this and visits the NA regularly will do this for you since you don't live locally

Two of my great-uncles were in the KOSB with nos. 20249 and 20250, not too far off from Donald Ellis - however, they were both 1st KOSB. Regt. no. 20541 would suggest that Ellis enlisted around July 1915. The KOSB numbers cannot really be relied on to speculate on battalion number though, you will need to check the medal rolls to be sure.

I hope someone will do a look-up for you,

Stuart

[Stebie9173]

Just for completeness:

There is a David D Ellis on the MICs as KOSB but he was a Territorial by the looks of it (4th Battalion number (201457) by 1917 allocation). So providing D. Ellis is KOSB and overseas with them, 20541 is looking promising)

Steve.

[Mike C]

I got the medal card for Donald Ellis, not sure how to interpret it. Under the heading "CORPS" it has "2 K.O.Sco Bord". The rank Pte and the service number is 20541. The medals indicated are "Victory, British, and 15 Star". Under the heading "ROLL" for Victory medal is "D/105 B 8, for the British is"do" (I assume that's ditto), and for 15 Star, it's "D/41. Under the PAGE heading Victory "845", British is "do", for 15 Star it's "24". In the remarks column is hand written the initials M.P.D. "Theater of war first served in (1) France". "Date of entry therein 29-9-15".

That's everything on the card. Is there more to find? Is the fact that only "2 KOSB" is noted significant? Does that mean he did not serve with the 7/8?

Thanks for any help. I really appreciate it.

Mike C

[Malcolm]

Not 7/8th KOSB, and not 1918sorry.

Scottish National War Memorial

Surname ELLIS

Firstname Donald

Service number 20541

Date of death 22/07/1916

Decoration

Place of birth Wrexham Derby

Other 2nd Bn.

SNWM roll THE KING'S OWN SCOTTISH BORDERERS

Rank Pte

Theatre of death F.& F.

Aye

Malcolm

[Mike C]

This just gets "curiouser and curiouser". Here's what I have from the KOSB Regimental Museum (Mr. Ian Martin) "D.P. Ellis served with 7/8 KOSB, which was formed in May/June 1916 from the remnants of the 7th and 7th Battalions, both of which had suffered heavy casualties at the Battle of Loos in September 1915. The Battalion was in the Arras sector in March-April 1917, and again in the spring of 1918. His name does not appear on our Roll of Honour, so it seems likely that he survived the war-though there is the possibility that he transferred to another regiment or corps at some stage the Commonwealth War Graves Commission web-site would be able to help you there, if you wish to pursue the matter further."

Mr. Martin indicates that 7/8 KOSB was in the Arras area March-April 1917, and again in the spring of 1918. The earlier, sorry, I meant later, period must have been when they met, as Grandad's outfit (18th Bn. CEF) was in the Neuville Vitasse sector when he joined the outfit on April 13, 1918. I believe that is near Arras.

I did look and the Commonwealth War Graves Commision web site and found 10 D. Ellis's listed, none of them our man. To further confuse the issue, the one listed on the medal cards (there were 6 on the page) that I just downloaded, that was listed as KIA, Donald Ellis of the "Lord Highs"?? (KIA 1-7-16), isn't listed there either.

Appreciate any further comments.

Mike C

[Mike C]

Sorry, the 7/8 was made up of remnants of the 7th and 8th, not the 7th and 7th.

Mike C

[PPCLI]

There is a David D Ellis on the MICs as KOSB but he was a Territorial by the looks of it (4th Battalion number (201457) by 1917 allocation).

Mike,

I had ruled the above man out for the wrong middle initial and, as Steve says, that he has a 1/4th territorial number. However, if the MICs have truly listed all the men who served under the name Ellis in the KOSB, then I suppose it is possible that the card has been mis-transcribed - a 'D' instead of 'P' - possible I suppose, depending on how flowery the handwritng is, perhaps a bit of a long curl at the base of the 'D', or the loop/circle of the 'P' ends close to the base of the vertical stroke!?

As for the 1/4th territorial number, I have had a quick look at the Soldiers Died book for the KOSB and there are a number of men with a 1/4th or 1/5th territorial number listed as being KIA while serving with the 7/8th Bn.:

202107 DoW 21/8/1917

202130 DoW 31/7/1918

202136 KIA 29/10/1917

240905 KIA 23/7/1918

241312 KIA 11/6/1918

242208 KIA 23/7/1918

For men with numbers near to 201457, David D Ellis:

201451 KIA Egypt, 1/4th Bn.

201454 KIA Egypt, 1/4th Bn.

201456 KIA 3/5/1917, France (Arras) 6th KOSB!

Make of this what you will, I'm afraid it is all a bit of a longshot. It will quite probably be a waste of your dollars downloading 201457, David D Ellis' MIC, but at least you could then rule him in or out. It's your call.

Let us know what you think,

Stuart

[Mike C]

I'm going to try to attach a scan of the wallet in question. See what you can make of the name. I'm also going by the fact that the KOSB's Regimental Museum told me that indeed D. P. Ellis served in the 7/8.

Mike C

[Mike C]

I'm going to try to attach a scan of the wallet in question. See what you can make of the name. I'm also going by the fact that the KOSB's Regimental Museum told me that indeed D. P. Ellis served in the 7/8.

Mike C

[PPCLI]

Mike,

I would agree that it is D P Ellis. The only (remote) possibility is that the first initial could possible be an 'A' (if you squint at it sideways ).

If we stick to him being Pte. D.P. Ellis for the moment, then the options are:

1. Pay to see the David D. Ellis MIC to rule in/out the possibility that the initial could have been mis-transcribed as a ''D' instead of a 'P'.

2. Hope that someone will look up the KOSB medal roll at Kew to see what it says about Pte. 201457, David D Ellis.

3. Get back in touch with the KOSB museum. If they can tell you that a DP Ellis served with the 7/8th Bn. then it would be hoped that they should also know his regt. no. This would let us know if we are on the case of the correct man/MIC. (If they do have this information I would be very interested to know).

Can't think of any other options at the moment (it's much too late for a lot of brainpower - in fact I will have to go to bed while it is still worth my while!).

Stuart

[Mike C]

Stuart. Again a great big thanks. I have just now sent off a long letter (plea?) to the KOSB museum and I did indeed ask if they could provide his service number. We'll see what happens.

Mike C