Hedley Malloch Posted 14 September , 2005 Share Posted 14 September , 2005 Pals may be interested to know that there is a proposal to charge users of main roads and autoroutes before the Walloon Regional Parliament. The proposal is for everyone, including foreigners, to pay an annual payment of €25 to use road in Walloon. This is part of French-speaking Belgium which includes Mons, Namur, Liege and Tournai - but not Ypres. A vignette system is being suggested; that is, users would buy stickers valid for one year from local shops and put them on their windscreens. The proposal will be voted on in October and could be in operation by January next year. The Flamands - that's the region which includes Ypres - are not enthusiastic, but if Walloon accepts the idea, it may become more acceptable to their politicians. It is recognised that the system will bear more heavily on casual users - like visitors to the battlefields. There is more on this story on La Voix du Nord web-site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 14 September , 2005 Share Posted 14 September , 2005 Hello Hedley Thanks very much for the info. I must say that if the proposal is accepted it would be the biggest piece of cheek in history. I have travelled all over Europe, including through Jugoslavia to Greece and can say that without exception Belgian roads are the worst surfaced around. On my first visit I thought that the "roads" had been maintained at a 1914-18 standard, including shellholes, as some form of memorial to the dead. Signposting is pretty good though. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Evans Posted 14 September , 2005 Share Posted 14 September , 2005 Andy, If you think Belgian roads are bad, don't ever go to Poland! Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 14 September , 2005 Share Posted 14 September , 2005 If you think Belgian roads are bad, don't ever go to Poland! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hello Roy I've been, but I was drunk most of the time so didn't notice the roads Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 14 September , 2005 Share Posted 14 September , 2005 Ho Ho Ho Evilandymax! I fear the drunkeness will spread to Greece & Macedonia next week but I won't be driving! It's a sensible proposal, surely roads will be better as a result but it can't work like this, people who can use Flanders roads instead will - more divisiveness I fear - + surely there needs to be some accomodation for infrequent users. Some may be thinking fee will fall on many foreigners like a hotel tax but some tourists will just go elsewhere for short stay to detriment of Wallonia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frie Posted 14 September , 2005 Share Posted 14 September , 2005 Sorry to say, but there's not a proposal...... Some Walloon minister had did some thinking --- I say read the comments in the Belgian papers. It's already finished. Why this topic??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 14 September , 2005 Author Share Posted 14 September , 2005 frie, See today's La Voix du Nord. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frie Posted 15 September , 2005 Share Posted 15 September , 2005 La voix du Nord is French... Why being opset??? Read Belgian papers. They proved that the proposal is impossible. That's it. One walloon minister had a proposal, His prime minister said, this is stupid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Heyvaert Posted 15 September , 2005 Share Posted 15 September , 2005 Well, I must second Frie NOTHING has been decided on this. It was the Wallonian minister of transport who proposed this, and since announcing there have been negative reactions from her Flemish collegue, and she was also called back by the Wallonian minister-president who apparently didn't know anything about it. It is all from certain that this road vignet will be issued, as far as I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 15 September , 2005 Share Posted 15 September , 2005 Thank God for that. Thanks to our Belgian Pals for clarifying the situation. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 15 September , 2005 Share Posted 15 September , 2005 Andy, You been to Portugal? I drove through there 10 years ago - the roads are diabolical, only matched for dreadfulness by the quality of the locals driving! I have to say I have always considered Belgium's roads as good as anyone elses - IMHO we in the SE England/London area have Third World quality road surfaces. As far as I know the Swiss are the only ones to have a vignette and IIRC this only applies if you use the motorways. I think it is inevitable that we will all pay in the future to use our roads (on top of vehicle tax, fuel tax etc). The problem is our little island cannot cope. France has a superb system, the toll roads offer something for your money - perfect surfaces, space and countless well landscaped rest areas. In addition the non toll roads are also well surfaced and a viable route. In the UK we shall simply pay to drive on the same piece of grid-locked, worn out M25 as we do at the moment with no real alternative... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 16 September , 2005 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2005 I reported the front page headline (and all of page 2) on Wednesday's La Voix du Nord. But everyone is agreed that there is a proposal for a vignette system. This is a matter which will affect France, too, though given that France charges Belgians, and everyone else, for using their about to be privatised autoroute system French protests will rightly attract little concern in Belguim. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simon Bull Posted 16 September , 2005 Share Posted 16 September , 2005 Andy, I have to say I have always considered Belgium's roads as good as anyone elses - IMHO we in the SE England/London area have Third World quality road surfaces. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Giles Entirely agree with you about Belgian roads. Always found them good quality and not over-trafficked, which is interesting bearing in mind that density of population is often given as an excuse for UK roads being overcrowded. Could the problem really be lack of quality public transport in the UK??? However, if you really think that any roads in UK are like the Third World, could I politely suggest you have not been to the Third World lately? Just back form The Gambia and the notion that any of our roads are in the state that many of theirs are in is risible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 16 September , 2005 Share Posted 16 September , 2005 Agreed Simon, it was a little tongue in cheek. It is an absolute scandal given the wealth of our country and the monumental amount motorists are forced to pay for all aspects of running a car that such a tiny percentage is spent on the upkeep of or highways. Off on a tangent but forcing up the cost of motoring is sometimes justified by certain parties for legitimate environmental concerns but the huge potential of running on sustainable, non-polluting (and without political reliance on black gold) alternatives such as vegetable oil is completely ignored. There is tons of stuff on the net regarding this subject but this concise explanation says it all: http://www.ravenfamily.org/andyg/vegoil.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 16 September , 2005 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2005 As far as I know the Swiss are the only ones to have a vignette and IIRC this only applies if you use the motorways. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Also Austria where one pays motorway tolls on top of the vignette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frie Posted 16 September , 2005 Share Posted 16 September , 2005 Belgium to charge road users... Sorry, wrong .... It must be a Walloon minister tought to charge road users on Walloon roads. that is only part of Belgium (French speaking). The Walloon minister has no authority upon the Flemish roads, neither on the Brussels roads, neither on the German speaking part of Belgium. ..... Complicated ?? Stupid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 17 September , 2005 Share Posted 17 September , 2005 Just came back from Somme: I avoided Walloon maut charges by flying through French speaking Belgium with 180 km/h; sorry for this macho behaviour, but I am from Alabama, driving a German Audi perfection rental car.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 17 September , 2005 Share Posted 17 September , 2005 Third World roads with a Belgian connection. A mate of mine was a courier with an adventure holiday company some years ago. When travelling through Zaire, they heard that Mobutu had donated 1 million Zaires from his personal fortune for the nation's roads. 1m Zaires = £1500 GBP They were delayed for 3 days by 1 "pothole" - 200 metres long and 20 metres deep. That's what I call maintenance!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 19 September , 2005 Share Posted 19 September , 2005 "Just came back from Somme: I avoided Walloon maut charges by flying through French speaking Belgium with 180 km/h; sorry for this macho behaviour, but I am from Alabama, driving a German Audi perfection rental car.... " Lucky you weren't stopped. They fine you on the spot - and if you don't have the money the police will take you to a bank. If you refuse to pay they will confiscate the car there and then and leave you to walk. When the case comes up in court you are responsible for the charges for storing the car whether or not you are found guilty (this all applies to foreign registered cars). On the motorway charges, the Belgians are always coming up with this sort of thing. Some years ago they said they were going to charge Luxembourg registered cars for travelling in Belgium - lots go to Brussels on business. They hurriedly dropped it when Luxembourg said they would charge all Belgians coming into the country - about 50,000 commute daily, not to mention shoppers, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 19 September , 2005 Share Posted 19 September , 2005 "Just came back from Somme: I avoided Walloon maut charges by flying through French speaking Belgium with 180 km/h; sorry for this macho behaviour, but I am from Alabama, driving a German Audi perfection rental car.... " Lucky you weren't stopped. They fine you on the spot - and if you don't have the money the police will take you to a bank. If you refuse to pay they will confiscate the car there and then and leave you to walk. When the case comes up in court you are responsible for the charges for storing the car whether or not you are found guilty (this all applies to foreign registered cars). On the motorway charges, the Belgians are always coming up with this sort of thing. Some years ago they said they were going to charge Luxembourg registered cars for travelling in Belgium - lots go to Brussels on business. They hurriedly dropped it when Luxembourg said they would charge all Belgians coming into the country - about 50,000 commute daily, not to mention shoppers, etc. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yea I am aware of this fact; but i took precautions and always had 1 or 2 cars speeding at same speed 500m ahead of me, giving me cover from shrapnell fire - always look out for pals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 20 September , 2005 Share Posted 20 September , 2005 The Belgian police use unmarked cars and are often to be found speeding just to encourage you! Be warned, radar binnoculars work both backwards and forwards. Also, they know full well that a foreigner is not going to make the same fuss as a Belgian (and won't be related to the chief of police or a politician) so they get treated much more roughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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