Royal Marines photograph

[wilkokcl]

This picture was found in a box of family photographs and I hope someone can help identify it.

Going by the writing underneath I assume they are Royal Marines. But they seem incredibly young, especially when compared with the man sitting in the front.

Any comments on location, uniform, context etc very welcome.

Thanks,

Mark.

[Jonathan Saunders]

This picture was found in a box of family photographs and I hope someone can help identify it.

Going by the writing underneath I assume they are Royal Marines.  But they seem incredibly young, especially when compared with the man sitting in the front.

Any comments on location, uniform, context etc very welcome.

Thanks,

Mark.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my very limited knowledge I would say the cap badges are Royal Marine Light Infantry and the men are officers and cadets - I am not sure when the officer cap badge changed to the globe and laurel but certainly this cap badge was in use in 1914 and obviously still in use in 1916. The man sitting in the front I suspect is a WO/sergeant-instructor and wears a globe and laurel cap badge. The location is Deal or more correctly Walmer Barracks, the RM depot during the WW1 period.

Its a great picture - shame no names!

[wilkokcl]

Thanks for the reply. I do have one name: standing in the middle row is my ggfather Barry S Claudet.

The earliest mention I can find of him is in the London Gazette where, on 5/9/1916, it says he has been made a "proby 2nd Lt R.M". Don't know any more than that but he would have been 18 in 1916.

So would he have gone to Walmer Barracks for training immediately after signing up? Maybe someone with knowledge of the Royal Marines at that time can help....

Mark.

[michaeldr]

Mark,

Like JS above, my knowledge is very limited here, however if a little guess-work is allowed until an expert turns up then

Deal was the base where the Long Service marines did their training

[short Service marines did theirs at their divisions; Portsmouth, Chatham or Plymouth] so it is probably fair to say that officer training would also have been at Deal

His rank of ‘proby [probationary?] 2nd Lt RM’

Note it is not yet RMLI or RMA

This may also account for the cap badge which does not seem to be surmounted by the RMLI’s bugle – compare it with that of the chap sitting centre front.

Also, is it just me or do their cap badges appear to be much broader than the regular RMLI’s globe & laurel surmounted by a bugle? [JS; I am open to correction, but my info is that this badge was in service from 1905 to 1923]

There was a Sub-Lt. B. J. A. Claudet RNVR who served with the Howe Battalion, RND. He was at Antwerp in 1914 and was still with them as an Acting Lieutenant in May 1916. He seems to have survived the war, receiving his 1914 Star and Clasp in 1921 – is he another relative?

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Stephen Nulty]

Looks like they might have been brothers.

Looking at the 1901 census (aided by register of BMD) shows Arthur Crozier Claudet and his wife Ethel Ada living in Hampstead with their four sons. They are Bertram John A. Claudet, b. 1893, Richard Arthur O. Claudet, b. 1896, Geofffrey Francis Claudet, b. 1898 and Barry Sortain Claudet, b. 1899.

Arthur and Ethel (nee Cooper) were married in 1887.

Arthur was born in 1856, the son of Francis Claudet (born in 1826 in France).

[Jonathan Saunders]

Mark,

His rank of ‘proby [probationary?] 2nd Lt RM’

Note it is not yet RMLI or RMA

This may also account for the cap badge which does not seem to be surmounted by the RMLI’s bugle – compare it with that of the chap sitting centre front.   

Also, is it just me or do their cap badges appear to be much broader than the regular RMLI’s globe & laurel surmounted by a bugle? [JS; I am open to correction, but my info is that this badge was in service from 1905 to 1923]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Michael - the dates would tie up as I think - again from memory rather than looking up - the amalgamation of RMLI and RMA was in 1924. Also I think this cap-badge might have been used by officers of both RMLI and RMA. Whilst RM officers

were either RMLI or RMA (or attached elsewhere) they were, as far as I am aware, referred to purely as ... so and so, Royal Marines ... and so there does appear to be no distinction in this formality with officers titles - unlike ORs, and leads me to speculate that the cap-badge was used by both arms of the Corps.

Jon

ps - Len was having copyright problems re an electonic run of "RND". I see him in a fortnight and will get an update.

[wilkokcl]

Yes you are correct: B J A Claudet was my ggfather's older brother. He was in the RNVR and seems to have transferred to the RFC some time in 1916. While I know a little about his time in the RFC, I know nothing at all about service in the RNVR.

See my post in "The war in the air" section titled "Morane Biplane" as other members of the forum have kindly supplied information on BJA Claudet's flying career.

Any information from anyone on any aspects of their service would be much appreciated.

(PS. I have a card sent by B S Claudet from on board HMS Bacchante, in case that means something to anyone).

I know very little......but it seems other members of the Forum know an awful lot. Thanks!

[michaeldr]

Quote: Yes you are correct: B J A Claudet was my ggfather's older brother. He was in the RNVR and seems to have transferred to the RFC some time in 1916. While I know a little about his time in the RFC, I know nothing at all about service in the RNVR.

Mark,

I regret that I can add little to what I said earlier

Except perhaps to give you the refs for the info

Fevyer & Wilson’s book ‘The 1914 Star to the RN & RM’

See page 88, where alas the family name is spelt incorrectly

Clandet (sic), B.J.A., Sub Lieut. RNVR received his Star and Clasp 18 Oct 1921

Officers who served with the Royal Naval Division in operations around Antwerp, October 1914 – this list was found by Len Sellers in Ledgers ‘Report of Officer’s Service Royal Naval Division. 1914-1919. ROS 183, Vol 1 & 2, at the Ministry of Defence, Admiralty Library, Whitehall, London’ and published by Len in his magazine ‘RND’ issue No. 8 March 1999; see page 629 where under Howe Battalion appears the name

Sub Lieut Claudet

On 3rd May 1916 a list of officers serving in the Royal Naval Division was sent to Headquarters. This doc is now at the NA ref WO32/5075

Under the Howe Battalion is listed

Substantive Rank; Sub. Lieut.

Temp. Rank; A/Lieut.

Name; B.J.A. Claudet

[info as reproduced in Len Sellers’ magazine ‘RND’ issue No.4, March 1998]

A correction to my earlier post which must have been too early this morning

On rereading it I find that I have not expressed myself very clearly

see

“His rank of ‘proby [probationary?] 2nd Lt RM’

Note it is not yet RMLI or RMA

This may also account for the cap badge which does not seem to be surmounted by the RMLI’s bugle – compare it with that of the chap sitting centre front.”

Can I change ‘it is not yet RMLI or RMA’ to

‘they are not yet RMLI or RMA’ as I was intending to refer to the probationers

Apologies & Regards

Michael D.R.

[michaeldr]

Quote from JS; ps - Len was having copyright problems re an electonic run of "RND". I see him in a fortnight and will get an update.

In a fortnight eh.

Does that mean you're off to the peninsula?

You lucky devil

Have a great trip and v. best regards to all

Michael D.R.

[michaeldr]

Quote: (PS. I have a card sent by B S Claudet from on board HMS Bacchante, in case that means something to anyone).

Mark,

You don’t give the date of the postcard, but if he was at Deal in mid-1916 then the foll may fit - see;

‘Bacchante was the flagship of the 9th Cruiser Squadron, West Africa based in Sierra Leone 1917-19. She was paid off in April 1919 and sold in 1920 to Castle, Plymouth.’

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Jonathan Saunders]

Quote from JS; ps - Len was having copyright problems re an electonic run of "RND". I see him in a fortnight and will get an update.

In a fortnight eh.

Does that mean you're off to the peninsula?

You lucky devil

Have a great trip and v. best regards to all

Michael D.R.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Michael - Spot on! My third visit in the past year ...

[wilkokcl]

Thanks for all the info. Here is a close-up of the caps the boys are wearing in case that is any help: