Smoke and Landmines

[iain mchenry]

I'm having a friendly debate down here in Kosovo with a mate from the Irish army. Perhaps some of you could help?

1. Was smoke used by artillery during WW1 to cover advances/withdrawls?

2. Did any nation use anti-personnel land mines during the war?

My friend says that he has read of the Turks using crude AP mines in Gallipoli. I am sure that I have heard of the Germans using crude Anti-tank mines around the Cambrai region.

Please help.

Iain

[paul guthrie]

I can't give details but both were used. I asked the mine question some time ago and was provided with an illustrated answer.

[Annette Burgoyne]

Hi Iain

I do not know about anti-personnel land mines but artillery put down smoke to cover infantry, the Battle of Cambrai is a good example of smoke barrages being used to cover the tanks going over the first lines of trenches.

Regards

Annette

[Terry_Reeves]

Iain

Improvised anti-tank mines were certainly used on the Western Front, and at least one NCO of the RE was awarded the DCM for clearing them. These, as you have mentioned, were improvised devices, some contained in wooden boxes, reminiscent of the WW2 "Schumine", others were buried artillery shells fitted with a direct action fuse covered by a piece of wood as a pressure plate and then camouflaged. The British Army also developed a similar device. I have copies of the technical drawings somewhere. Incidentally, these early improvised designs were still being published in British manuals in the 1960's. I will try and find the drawings and see if they include improvised AP mines.

Slightly off topic, the RE's also produced a delay device which consisted of a 5lb biscuit tin filled with high explosive, fitted with a McAlpine long delay fuse. Sappers would sometimes accompany trench raiding parties and leave their calling card in German dugouts which would detonate several hours later.

Terry Reeves

[Paul Reed]

I am not sure there was an 18 pdr smoke round, but the 3 inch Stokes mortar had a smoke round and was often used for this purpose - to lay down a smoke barrage.

One version of anti-tank mine was a converted Plum Pudding TM bomb, laid around Gouzeaucourt by the British in March 1918 just before the Kaiserschlact. It accounted for some tanks on 21.3.18, but a lot of British and American tanks in September, because no-one thought to map the minefield and it became 'lost'!

[jhill]

Smoke was often used with gas. I believe the classic reference is General Foulkes' (spelling?) history of the Gas Brigade. The idea was to use smoke shells along with gas shells (or smoke clouds with gas clouds) to create a "Pavlovian" sort of response from the defenders. When an advance was made behind smoke (with no gas), the defenders in their respirators would be at a disadvantage.

On another note, at Hill 70 in August 1917, a smoke screen was created by projecting barrels of burning oil into parts of Lens. Perhaps the technology used was similar to the "Livens" projectors used by the Gas Brigade.

I am sure there are plenty of similar stories out there.

[Mark Hone]

A lot of people get confused between the different connotations of the word 'mine' in World Wars One and Two, not least the novelist Susan Hill who in her book 'Strange Meeting' has people being blown up by mines as they cross No-Man's Land. As far as I am aware 'land mines' did not feature in the Great War although I think that primitive versions had turned up in the American Civil War.

[AOK4]

Land mines actually did exist in WW1 although they were not used on a large scale.

Both sides lay booby-traps when they had to give up positions, f.i. the British used a lot of booby-traps in May 1915 when they retreated around Ypres. Quite a few Germans were killed/wounded by booby-traps.

Jan

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

I have come across numerous refeences to the use of smoke and smoke generating materials from the war. As to mines (land mines), they were a feature of the war. The British and French and Germans used them on the Somme. I have photos of German anti-tank mines made from artillery shells, etc.

One German patrol on 1915 on the Somme had the misfortune of running into a 'contact mine' field that resulted in several casualties. There was another thread with the same details that should be still available.

Ralph

[CROONAERT]

As has been discussed in a previous thread, the "land-mines" (anti-tank or AP) of WW1 weren't specifically designed as such. These (mines in the modern term) didn't truly arrive until the 1930's (although semi-successful experiments were carried out in the '20s). The "mines" encountered in WW1 tended to be other items of ordnance or explosives either made into home-made "booby-trap" style devices, or ,as has been mentioned above , items of ordnance converted to uses other than their original intention.

For examples of WW1 style "mines", have a look at the uses that the VC made of unexploded US ordnance and grenades in Vietnam. Crude , but effective.

Dave.

[Tim Birch]

The film "Khartoum" depicts Gordon using pre-buried AP mines detonated by electric cables when the enemy passed them as early as 1884/5 during the Sudan war. I don't know whether this was film maker's licence or if it was based on fact?

Tim

[Bryn_Hammond]

By late 1918 tanks were being fitted with their own smoke devices - although crews were also provided with smoke bombs since, with the prevailing wind often being favourable they could use one of these to mask the advance of their vehicle.

Smoke & tanks - goes together like ... like ... two things that go together very well.

The 'lost' anti-tank minefield was 'rediscovered' (unfortunately for the 301st US Tank Battalion and, I think 4th Tank Bn) on 29 Sep 1918 in the 'MAQUINCOURT VALLEY' during the attack to break the Hindenburg Line.