Verdun visit

[burlington]

I am 'calling in' to Verdun for a day as part of a holiday which, Verdun apart, is not WW1 related.

In the time available i.e 1 day max, would you go for a short guided visit from a local guide or would you DIY?

If the former, and apart from the tour guides from the Tourist Office, do any names spring to mind?

If the latter, what locations would you visit as a priority given the time constraints?

Thanks

Martin

[bluedog]

Martin

Start at the top with the best, contact Christina Holstein through

the forum

Peter

[Christina Holstein]

Hello Bluedog and Burlington,

Here I am, back from a long absence from the Forum and delighted to find that it's still functioning as before.

Burlington, if you PM me and give me your dates, I'll see what I can do.

Re one day's self-tour or guided tour, you can certainly do a good day's self-tour at Verdun but you need transport from the town to the battlefield. The main sites are the Memorial museum at Fleury, Fleury village, the Ossuary, Forts Douaumont and Vaux, the remains of the Thiaumont fieldwork and the Froideterre fieldwork. That will easily fill up a day. If you've got more time than that, there is plenty to see in Caures Wood, where Driant made his stand, in some of the other destroyed villages and in the woods generally. You need the special battlefield map called Forêts de Verdun et le Mort-Homme, which is on sale at the Museum and in the forts and is also on sale at the bookshop in the main street of the town. That has all the main sites marked and many of the subsidiary sites as well.

Bluedog, thanks for your kind words. I'm finding that there is a growing interest in Verdun and I've had far more expressions of interests in visits this year than ever before.

Anyway, regards from Luxembourg to all you Forumistas

Christina

[Jonathan Saunders]

Martin - Christina really is the expert on where to go and what to see - I have been fortunate enough to have had Christina's company twice at Verdun.

Two places I would urge you not to miss are Caures Wood and the "village" (and tunnels if open) at nearby Vaquois.

[CROONAERT]

In the time available i.e 1 day max, would you go for a short guided visit from a local guide or would you DIY?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally, and armed with prior research of the area, I'd do it DIY. I've never hired a guide, or been on a guided tour (apart from the tunnels at la Targette) for anywhere on the Western Front as I've always found that I learn about what happened where and when better if I've researched it myself. Also, all the "adventure" and joy of discovery is taken away if someone shows them to you (especially if it's an "official" guide who is governed by the local H&S regulations! ).

My advice is (always) read up first then go it alone.

Dave.

(Verdun tourist office sells plenty of maps and guidebooks anyway, if it's just the "usual" sights you wish to see!)

[healdav]

I would dispute that you can do it all yourself.

I take people around the St. Mihiel salient and virtually nothing is in any guide book at all and most is not on the maps either. Christina takes people to places at Verdun that no one else knows about.

To boot, the trenches I take people to are as they were left in 1918 and not sanitised for the tourists as they are on the Somme.

Oh, and if you come with me as with Christina it's on a strictly, you blow yourself up it's your problem basis.

[CROONAERT]

I would dispute that you can do it all yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As with a visit to anywhere, it all depends on how much research you put in yourself prior to a visit. You definately can do it all yourself - I've always managed it with no problems!

For a first -especially a one day - visit, then the main "tourist" routes ,which are well documented from literature that can be picked up locally, are ,I believe, as sufficient an introduction to the area as any. The "in depth" study can always come later when more time is available.

dave.

[healdav]

"As with a visit to anywhere, it all depends on how much research you put in yourself prior to a visit. You definately can do it all yourself - I've always managed it with no problems!"

How do you know that you manage.

I take people to places that sometimes have taken me several years to find and many, many months to research.

Some places I take people to do not figure on any maps even (except cemeteries) and none of them figure in any guide books.

In fact, there is one place that Christina and I have been trying to tie down for about 5 or 6 years and only succeeded provisionally last week.

[CROONAERT]

How do you know that you manage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't quite understand this? I see the things I wish to see - the places of actions, etc. that I've read about no matter how obscure. Other places I might simply stumble upon during my wanderings to other places and have to find out what it was and what happened there later. By doing this I know about it next time.

If that's not "managing" to do a self guided tour then I don't know what is!

(Besides, is so much detail required for a non specialised day trip?)

Dave.

[CROONAERT]

I take people to places that sometimes have taken me several years to find and many, many months to research.

Some places I take people to do not figure on any maps even (except cemeteries) and none of them figure in any guide books.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ditto! (Though I take myself and friends/family rather than other people as I'm not in a position to conduct tours).

Let me ask you a question. Going back to when you started researching these battlefields and for the next few years, did you employ the uses of a guide, or did you do it yourself?

Dave.

[burlington]

I started off with a guide for the Somme and then for the past few years have been strictly solo DIY

Martin

[healdav]

Well, it is quite complicated.

I first went to one area on a long distance walk about 20 year ago and didn't go there for about 10 years. I had no thought of doing any guiding in those days.

Then I decided to find the place and have a good look around (just for myself). That I did and thought I had found what there was to see. Then I started asking myself questions about the area and have been there four or five times by myself to see what there is to see and what to bring to the attention of groups I take there (and that only arose because I was chatting to some people, one turned out to be an English teacher who's class was doing WW1 British peots and had never seen the trenches and asked me to take them) - and that is not always simple, and often there is much more to be deduced from the area than appears to the eye on first seeing it.

The second set of trenches are mentioned in a book, but with a vague name and no clue as to where they actually are. Even with a trench map of the supposed area it took me an entire weekend to find exactly what was being talked about.

Now, I know where the 3rd and 4th line trench remains are (for a little way), but have still to try and fight my way through the forest to see if any of the front line and second line remains. One day when I get time...

In fact, a couple of years ago I took a group here and showed them the trench remains and what was on the map, how it fittend in, etc and a couple of people wandered into the forest and gave a shout. They had found the remains of a dugout that I had simply not seen before. I always went one way around and the dugout was on the other way! And a strange dugout it is.

So, it isn't just a case of saying, 'let's have a look down here, there ought to be a trench'. You could look for hours and not find it even though it is there.

One set of trenches (mentioned above) are not far from a 'road' - no surface and you have to turn round and go back the same way except with a large 4 x 4. But I can guarantee that you could walk through there for hours or days without even suspecting what there is to be seen - remember that 50 metres in either direction and you have missed the whole area and you are ploughing through thick forest.

It's quite hard work working up an area to a situation where you can take someone around with confidence as to what is there. It's certainly not a 'let's look at the map' and find everything.

Of course, if you just want to follow a guidebook, life is simple, but writing the guidebook is very complicated!

[healdav]

I forgot to add that, naturally there are big differences in the competence of guides. To put it tactfully there are brilliant guides like me and there are the others.

Christina is going to kill me, but never mind my life insurance is vast, so I'll be a millionaire.

[BlackSeptember1918]

As someone who has had the pleasure of Chistina showing me her Verdun , please let me tell you of my/our experience .

You get to Verdun almost losing the plot trying to make your way around the one-way system . You feel as if once you have found a place to park you'll be too scared to ever leave again . Then walks up this smiling lady who you warm to straight away ...and off you go on a day trip you will never forget . Chistina walks you through the forrests to places that only can be found after years of searching . She wants to take you to places you are interested in and she leaves you for dead with her energy .

I often find myself daydreaming about what I saw that day , and all because of her .

If you are lucky enough to be shown Christina's Verdun ..then grab that chance with both hands and both feet .

She is a friend for life , and a wonderful lady .

and I know I should email more often Christina !!...what can you do with a dumb Aussie gold miner ????.

Phil.

[healdav]

I shall tell when I see her (she lives just down the road).

Just to show you though. Whilst Christina has shown me a lot of places, I have shown her a lot of others and we have found more together!

[burlington]

Thank you everyone for your postings and different viewpoints.

I think that in the normal course of events, I would go for a DIY approach. I have in the past had my fingers burnt over a 'guided' tour of a certain battlefield in Belgium!

However time and other factors plus your winning (self)recommendations lead to the view that a guided tour has the edge.

This being the case could those who read this posting and who do such guided tours please PM me with the sort of itinerary you would recommend for a Verdun beginner plus an indication of your fees.

Thank you very much.

Martin

[Jonathan Saunders]

I would like to add that the second best thing in Verdun, after Christina of course, is the KWAK. A truly great beer.

[CROONAERT]

I would like to add that the second best thing in Verdun, after Christina of course, is the KWAK.  A truly great beer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Debateable (you realise that it's actually Belgian (and not exactly their greatest export either!) though don't you ,and available at outlets throughout the UK too?)

Dave.

[robbie]

I would like to add that the second best thing in Verdun, after Christina of course, is the KWAK.  A truly great beer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

kwak kwak - when the next Pal's trip planned?

Robbie

[Jonathan Saunders]

Debateable   (you realise that it's actually Belgian (and not exactly their greatest export either!) though don't you ,and available at outlets throughout the UK too?)

Dave.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wash your mouth out with Old Rodger - you are on dangerous ground denegrating the great KWAK - which has many Forum supporters!

Yes an uncomparable Belgium top fermentation brew with an acquired taste, best served between 5 and 6 degrees in its traditional glass.

I have found it available in midlands but not the sunny south-east unless you know better?

[CROONAERT]

I have found it available in midlands but not the sunny south-east unless you know better?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't know about the South East (just a "passing through" place isn't it? ), but there are about 4 off-licenses in a 7 mile radius of where I live that sells it, plus my local Asda. Also, there's a pub that sells it in my town centre (along with Duvel "green" and about 30 other belgian and German brews) and one not too far away that had (might still have) it on draught. You live in the wrong bit of the country!!!

Kwak is OK I suppose, but not great. I used to like it and drank it quite regularly up to about 10 years ago, but find it a little bland and mundane nowadays. It's definately not "uncomparable" - there are a whole range of very similar beers. The only unique thing about Kwak is the glass . There are many far superior beers out there!

Dave.

[Jonathan Saunders]

Oh you are a "reformed" KWAKER - that explains it!

[Jonathan Saunders]

kwak kwak - when the next Pal's trip planned?

Robbie 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Robbie we had one last month. Didnt Chris or Terry tell you?

[robbie]

Robbie we had one last month.  Didnt Chris or Terry tell you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are joking I hope.

Terry?

Robbie