Radio technology in the Great War

[rmtruby]

I came across this a few weeks ago.

Firstly, I was wondering whether radio amateurs would have had the chance to use their skills during the Great War.

More specifically, is there any way of finding out more about "2QW" the radio amateur from West Bromwich / Wolverhampton?

Thanks

Ray

[ianw]

I think I recall reading that the activities of radio amateurs were greatly restricted in the UK for security reasons. This was probably mirrored in France and Germany.

[rmtruby]

I was thinking more in terms of whether radio amateurs were specifically recruited so that they could use their specialist skills in the armed forces.

Thanks

Ray

[Moonraker]

Ernest Walter Brudenell Gill joined the 9th Hampshire as a private early in the Great War. Soon he was on the Wiltshire Downs above Devizes carrying out wireless experiments with a temporary aerial rigged to an old shepherd's tin hut, perhaps close to the Marconi wireless station that had been nearing completion when war broke out.

After service in the East, Gill returned in 1918 to the station as a major in the Royal Engineers (though apparantly a member of military intelligence, MI1e, responsible for breaking codes and analysing traffic) and its commanding officer. He discreetly refers to the station in “War, Wireless and Wangles“, (Blackwell, Oxford 1934) stating that it determined the position of enemy wireless stations and the movements of enemy aircraft.

I appreciate this doesn't help you very much, as I don't know his prewar experience, but he was brainy, after WWI becoming a Fellow of Merton College, Oxford, so would have been wasted in the trenches. To be honest, I've an ulterior motive in posting this reply, as I'm after any gen on the Devizes wireless station. (An enquiry on the Forum earlier this year yielded nothing.)

[rmtruby]

Thanks for the posting. My interest in this topic was initially stimulated after reading an article in History Today about a year ago about wireless technology during the Great War.

Thanks

Ray

[Moonraker]

Ray

Have you the specific issue number and date please, so I can get a copy from my local library?

Three years back I corresponded about the Devizes station with the head of a university school of cystallography who was one of a team preparing a book on WWI wireless stations in the UK. Dunno if this ever saw the light of day; if it did it would have filled a gap. I'll email the guy, though one never knows how current old email addresses are.

Moonraker

[MartinWills]

Ray,

I know that during 1916 the authorities advertised in "Wireless World" inviting interested people to apply for commissions in the RE, though a number of applicants were turned down as such but recommended for recruitment/transfer as sappers for Wireless training. A number of them found their way into the Wireless Experimental Establishment through attachment to the RGC (and subsequently the RAF). The WEE was based at Joyce Green airfield near Dartford but sought to transfer to a more rural location in the last year or so of the war and found themselves a billet in Kent in a farmers field that had been identified as an emergency landing field earlier in the war. The location was close to a village by the name of Biggin Hill and is better known for its WW2 use. Even into the thirties it still had close links with signals.

The WEE did much of the key work on ground to air telephony (as opposed to telegraphy) and amongst the men who served there in the Great War was one destined to become the Chief Engineer for the BBC in the early 1920's and another who commanded London Divisional Signals (TA) in WW2.

Their work is very much shrouded in mystery even today, though I have seen some reports on the development of thermionic valves and seen a few photographs of their activities with a number of "obsolescent" two seaters. If anyone has any information or pointers on the WEE I am sure both Ray & I would be most interested.

[rmtruby]

Ray

Have you the specific issue number and date please, so I can get a copy from my local library?

Three years back I corresponded about the Devizes station with the head of a university school of cystallography who was one of a team preparing a book on WWI wireless stations in the UK. Dunno if this ever saw the light of day; if it did it would have filled a gap. I'll email the guy, though one never knows how current old email addresses are.

Moonraker

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll be away travelling for a few days, but I'll try to track the information down within the week.

thanks

Ray

[rmtruby]

Ray

Have you the specific issue number and date please, so I can get a copy from my local library?

Three years back I corresponded about the Devizes station with the head of a university school of cystallography who was one of a team preparing a book on WWI wireless stations in the UK. Dunno if this ever saw the light of day; if it did it would have filled a gap. I'll email the guy, though one never knows how current old email addresses are.

Moonraker

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The article, entitled "The First World War and Radio Development" by Dean Juniper appeared in History Today Vol 54 (5), May 2004.

Thanks

Ray

[healdav]

When the Germans invaded here, they were very quick to destroy any and all radio sets. Almost as they marhced throug, in fact.

Indeed, one man complained that they had broken into his house and half wrecked the place looking for his radio set. They could see the aerial on the roof, but couldn't find the set. He pointed out that it was a lightning conductor.

A local newspaper got a going over also as they had a puff on the front page every day saying that the weather forecast came direct by radio. In fact, it came by radio to Brussels and was then telephoned to Luxembourg.

[Moonraker]

The article, entitled "The First World War and Radio Development" by Dean Juniper appeared in History Today Vol 54 (5), May 2004.

Thanks

Ray

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, Ray, I'll look it up. No word from the crystallography guy but I suppose he could be on holiday and wants to get away from emails that might relate to work.

Moonraker

[Moonraker]

UOTE(rmtruby @ Aug 22 2005, 04:56 PM)

The article, entitled "The First World War and Radio Development" by Dean Juniper appeared in History Today Vol 54 (5), May 2004.

Thanks

Ray

I've now read the article and exchanged notes with Dean, who recommends a book by W H Eccles, "Handbook of wireless telegraphy and telephony", published by Ben Bros in 1918. He reckons the censors must "have been asleep because it's packed with sensitive information". I see the Bodleian Library at Oxford University has three copies and I'm due for a visit there later this month, so am looking forward to reading it.

Moonraker

[Martyn Gibson]

Hi Moonraker,

Can you let me know what you think of the book after your visit. I read the article with great interest and I would be interested to know what the book contains.

Many thanks

Martyn

[Moonraker]

Hi Moonraker,

Can you let me know what you think of the book after your visit. I read the article with great interest and I would be interested to know what the book contains.

Many thanks

Martyn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Moonraker,

Can you let me know what you think of the book after your visit. I read the article with great interest and I would be interested to know what the book contains.

Many thanks

Martyn

I've now checked the Oxford University library catalogue and see there were two editions, 1915 and 1918, so I'll look at both and let you know. I'm hoping to visit Oxford before the end of this month.

www.marconicalling.com is worth looking at - details of experiments on Salisbury Plain in the 1890s (including painting showing military observers) and pre WWI air-to-ground trials there.

Moonraker

[Martyn Gibson]

Hi Moonraker,

Thanks for the reply. I am aware of Marconicalling.com it is a very interesting site.

I am an ex Marconi employee now working for BT (the irony of the situation) and I was 27 years in the military as a Telegraphist so I do have a very vested interest in this form of communications.

Have a good weekend and I hope to hear from you after that.

Regards

Martyn

[Moonraker]

QUOTE(Martyn Gibson @ Sep 8 2005, 08:25 PM)

Hi Moonraker,

Can you let me know what you think of the book after your visit. I read the article with great interest and I would be interested to know what the book contains.

Many thanks

Martyn

Martyn

I visited several Oxford University libraries yesterday and looked at two editions of W H Eccles' "Handbook of Wireless Telegraphy and Telephony“. The first edition was published (probably) 1916, though I could see no date. A revised and enlarged second edition was published in 1918. It provides mainly "formulae, data and information" of a very technical nature and describes various systems, including those of Marconi and Telefunken, as well as installations at the Eiffel Tower, Panama Canal Zone, Arlington (Naval Radio Service), Poldhu, Hanover, Carnarvon and Tolwyn. One presumes much of the information was gathered before the Great War and some of it had already been printed in "The Electrician" magazine (which presumably catered for wireless enthusiasts rather than guys who wired your house), but it is surprising that the authorities allowed it to appear in book form during hostilities, to which neither edition appears to allude. The only pages of interest to me described the design and erection of a typical Marconi steel mast, which may well have been the type installed near Devizes in 1914.

Back in the late 1990s the Marconi archivist at Chelmsford was very helpful and generous in respodning to my enquiry about "Marconi in Wiltshire".

Moonraker

[jemm]

I came across this a few weeks ago. 

Firstly, I was wondering whether radio amateurs would have had the chance to use their skills during the Great War.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My Great Uncle Jim was into amatuer radio and became a radio operator in the Flying Corps during the Great War when he served on the Ypres front, he was "mentioned in dispatches" and recived the Bronze Oak decoration. I don't have much more information for during the Great War but I was told by my cousin that.

When World War 2 broke out Jim was too old for active service and so was invited to be a "voluntary interceptor", a group of ex-military and radio amateurs who were tasked to listen out for German spies transmitting from Britain. A lot of the VI's were issued with HRO or AR88 receivers. My Uncle Jim reported to a man called Arnold Whitley, who lived in

Rochdale, and he reported to a Captain Walter Stanworth in Preston. The

organization was called the "Radio Security Service", which belonged to

MI-8 up until 1941 and then MI-5 afterwards. Jim's identification number

was VI/NW/149, which means "voluntary interceptor, NW England, number 149".

After the war the records were destroyed for security reasons, but it's

estimated that there were a total of only about 1,500 VI's in England

between 1939 and 1945, and many of the younger ones were called into the

military.By the middle of 1940 it became obvious that they were no German spies

still at large in Britain. The RSS people then began listening to the

Abwehr, the German equivalent of MI-6, as they occupied France, Holland

etc. This is what Jim did for much of the rest of the war, listening to

German stations on the continent. All messages received had been heavily

coded by the German Enigma machines, so they were in fact forwarded on from

London to Bletchley Park to be decoded as part of the "Ultra" secret which was not declassifed until 1989.

[Glosters]

Interesting photo from an original album: RFC men with radio equipment

[Guest British Sapper]

At least one author, Neal Wilgus, in his book 'The Illuminoids, argues that TV was used in WW1 , though in a very small capacity and he further says it was 'Top Secret'.

I have no idea if what he says was true or not. What I do know is that being ex-forces myself, some things are kept secret.

By the way, I was a 'wirely- op' myself, in the RE, early 1970's.