9534 Pte T. Duffy - dead 24th april 1915

[The Plummed Goose]

Dear Pals,

This weekend I came across this headstone in V-beach ...

I presume their is a logical explanation for this.

Does anybody have that explanation ????

Thanks in advance

eric

[oak]

Dear Eric,

The only two possible explanations are (1) It's a mistake or (2) Private Duffy died on 24 April 1915.

Commonwealth War Graves records show his date of death as 24 April, just give his initial, surname, Reg. No. the fact that he was 1st Bn Royal Munster Fusiliers and that he is commemorated on Special Memorial A.45.

The official history of 1st Bn. Royal Dublin Fusiliers tells that a soldier died on 28 March while the battalion was travelling to the Mediterranean. (Peter Kanvanagh was buried at sea. He is commemorated on the Helles Memorial, though he died before the Gallipoli landings). The official history of 1st Bn. Royal Munster Fusiliers -- which is not as detailed -- does not mention any soldier dying on the way to Gallipoli. However, I think that if a man had died on the eve of the battalion's going into action it would surely have been mentioned in the official history.

1st Bn. Royal Munster Fusiliers left Lemnos on board the Caledonia at about 5p.m. 23 April. Steaming slowly all night, the ship reached Tenedos about 7a.m. on 24 April. At 3.15 p.m. orders were given to embark on the River Clyde. The embarkation was complete by 7.30 p.m. Cocoa was issued to the men during the night. At 1a.m. on the morning of 25 April the River Clyde left her moorings and headed for the Gallipoli Peninsula. If one of the men had died in the middle of all the commotion, it would surely have been noteworthy enough to have been recorded, not only in the RMF official history but also in other sources.

If he had died on board ship, surely he'd have been buried at sea? It seems unlikely that his body would have been kept on board -- particularly if he died on the River Clyde, with the men about to go into action.

Pte. T. Duffy does not have a known grave -- He has a Special Memorial i.e. "Known/believed to be buried in this cemetery." If he had died on board ship and was later buried at V Beach , surely he would have an identified grave? The graves at V Beach were never disturbed by later fighting.

I am aware of at least one error that was made on a V Beach headstone. This was for one of the two Mallaghan brothers. If my memory serves me correctly, Holt's book on Gallipoli says the brothers were initially identified as being twins. The error was later corrected.

So Eric, I'm arguing that the date on Pte. T. Duffy's headstone -- and in Commonwealth War Graves Commission Records -- is incorrect.

I know that the RMF history has a list of battalion casualties in an appendix. I'll take a look at that to see what date it gives for Pte. T. Duffy's death.

Regards,

Philip

[oak]

Eric,

My extracted notes from "Soldiers Died" give the additional information that he was Thomas Duffy, born St. Michael's Limerick. Resident and enlisted in Limerick. In my extract I have written down his date of death as 25/4/15, but as that may have been a case of me correcting the record(!!) please do not assume that this is correct.

Alas, when I checked my extracted notes from the official history of the Royal Munster Fusiliers, I see only a list of officer casualties. So I haven't managed to clear up the mystery.

If I find anymore I'll post it here.

Regards,

Philip

[PhilB]

As it was not unusual for dates of death to be a day or two out at times of great action (1/7/16 being the best example) perhaps it might be worth checking the dates for others in the battalion to see if any more are down as died on the 24th?

Phil B

[Brigantian]

Doesn’t really take us much further but SDGW on CD has him KIA on 25/4/15. No fatalities in his Battalion are recorded for 24/4/15, but there are 55 for the 25th.

Regards

Mark

[curranl]

Hello Eric,

Ireland's Memorial Records has the following entry for Duffy:

Duffy, Thomas. Reg. no. 9534. Rank Private, Royal Munster Fusiliers, 1st Battalion; Killed in Action, Gallipoli, April 25th, 1915. Born St. Michael's, Limerick.

Looks like a typo somewhere along the line!

Regards,

Liam.

[The Plummed Goose]

Dear Pals,

Thanks a million for all the effort & work.

I think it is rather clear ... KIA 25th but how come the CWGC does not correct such an obvious mistake ...

eric

PS : When you're over here I owe you (Liam, Mark & Phil) one ... That is an Efes Pilsen ... cold as ice.

[curranl]

Hello Eric,

I would be only delighted to take you up on your offer of a meet up for a beer on Gallipoli! Sadly, there are many other demands on the Euros at the moment

But can I ask a favour if you are in the vicinity of the Farm? If you happen to be passing the cemetery where "my" men of the 6th Royal Irish Rifles are laid to rest, please pause for a second and remember them for me.

Regards,

Liam.

[The Plummed Goose]

I will ...

[MartinWills]

I would not rule out a death on 24th - perhaps illness or an accident but it is also the case that the CWGC have to work to MoD (Army) records and who knows what they may say.

Although the graves at V beach were not disturbed by later fighting the grave markers may well hav disappeared following the evacuation. Many of the graves in V Beach Cemetery are unmarked (there are no "unknowns" on Gallipoli) and there are a substantial number of "known to be buried ... " reflecting that it is confirmed that the man was buried there but no grave marker or record survived. Logic may dictate that it was most likely that he died on 25th (or later) but the records are the evidence that is used anf the CWGC are cautious as well as having strict guidelines to which they have to work.

[oak]

Eric,

I've consulted with a fellow who has a website to the Royal Munster Fusiliers. He confirms -- as one of the Pals already has --- that soldiers died has Thomas Duffy's date of death as 25 April. He also confirms that the official history of the Munsters gives Duffy's date of death as 25 April. So it would appear that CWGC records are wrong in this case.

Regards,

Philip

[The Plummed Goose]

Dear Phil,

Sorry for the late reply but I have been travelling.

Thanks a million ... and seems I'll be able to keep my promise some time next week !!

See you for a cold Efes !!

eric